What pedal is best for swirly, trippy sort of sounds

[bob p]

All of that said, I will still insist that decent Leslie emulators (and I have a few) become MUCH more inspiring when run in true stereo, such that the signal not only has all of the relevant doppler stuff and filtering applied, but physically moves around the listening space, from speakers to speakers.

Inspiring or disorienting?

I remember the first time I experienced that, back in the 70s. Mangione was big back then, and we were performing Feels So Good on a dark theatrical stage. Our guitarist was a big fan of Grant Geissman. For that performance he surprised us all with his brand-new stereo Bi-Phase with slaves without warning us about it. It was completely dark, except for a few dim colored lights that started pulsing for his solo. As the lights start pulling he stepped on that Bi-Phase and I got hit with total loss of balance and I felt like I was going to fall off of the stage. It was so disorienting that I could barely play my bass. If you've ever experienced this sort of thing with dual phasors in stereo then you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. For me, it only overwhelmed me the first time I was exposed to it. Once I learned how to process the signals I was OK, but the first time it was extremely disorienting. Almost 50 years later I still remember the impact of that moment. It was like losing my dual-phasor virginity.

Somebody needs to market a repro Bi-Phase stompbox. I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

[Mark Hammer]

One of the reasons why the Ibanez Flying Pan tanked. Combining phasing and auto-pan sounds like a fascinating idea, but you couldn't play with that thing behind you into two amps for more than 10 seconds.

As I've probably recounted on more than one occasion, the only time I've ever stepped up to a mic and completely blanked on song lyrics, was a time when I was playing through an old Valco set to slow tremolo on my right, and my Princeton-driven Vibratone, set to slow, on my left. It was incredibly distracting. I'm sure it would have been delightful if I was an audience-member and chemically-altered, but not if you're trying to do a job.

In discussion on another forum, with freelance designer "Ton" Barmentloo (who designed a number of products for EHX), I mentioned the idea of "wet-panning", and this intrigued him. The Flanger Hoax pedal came out shortly after that, but I have no idea if the idea was implemented in it. It's a pretty deep pedal, and not the sort of thing you can put through its paces in a music store, unless you have the afternoon free.

"Wet-panning" implies that the clean signal remains constant out the two outputs, but the wet signal is blended with clean to intensify the effect on each channel in alternating, or rather morphing, fashion. This sidesteps the disorienting aspect of starkly different signals/tones and amplitudes from each channel.

[christarak]

I'm with you there. In fact, I just bought a Nux Monterey pedal for AUD80. Its a Chinese made clone of the original Univibe. Bargain. It sounds great.

[christarak]

One of the reasons why the Ibanez Flying Pan tanked. Combining phasing and auto-pan sounds like a fascinating idea, but you couldn't play with that thing behind you into two amps for more than 10 seconds.

As I've probably recounted on more than one occasion, the only time I've ever stepped up to a mic and completely blanked on song lyrics, was a time when I was playing through an old Valco set to slow tremolo on my right, and my Princeton-driven Vibratone, set to slow, on my left. It was incredibly distracting. I'm sure it would have been delightful if I was an audience-member and chemically-altered, but not if you're trying to do a job.

In discussion on another forum, with freelance designer "Ton" Barmentloo (who designed a number of products for EHX), I mentioned the idea of "wet-panning", and this intrigued him. The Flanger Hoax pedal came out shortly after that, but I have no idea if the idea was implemented in it. It's a pretty deep pedal, and not the sort of thing you can put through its paces in a music store, unless you have the afternoon free.

"Wet-panning" implies that the clean signal remains constant out the two outputs, but the wet signal is blended with clean to intensify the effect on each channel in alternating, or rather morphing, fashion. This sidesteps the disorienting aspect of starkly different signals/tones and amplitudes from each channel.

Funny you should mention the "Flying Pan". I modded mine when I was about 17 by installing Craig Andertons overdrive circuit in one of the useless panning channels. Shame really. I devalued the pedal from a now collectable USD600 to about AUD 20

[bob p]

As it turns out I was looking at YT videos for the Flanger Hoax yesterday. It's complicated. None of them did it justice.

[bob p]

Hijacking for a minute -- have you looked at the new Electric Mistress products? Specifically the new Deluxe Electric Mistress and the Electric Mistress XO? I've been trying to get a feel for how they compare to the originals, as I've become wary about taking my A/DA out of the house and I'm looking for something "disposable" for the pedalboard. Unfortunately for me it's just not possible to get them all side by side to compare, so i thought I'd ask.

So many flangers, so little time...

[LofiPartyPunk]

Thanks

[Mark Hammer]

As more pedals incorporate digital brains, it becomes more important for manufacturers to either provide demonstration videos showing how to use the different controls/features, or applets with graphic interfaces. Once upon a time, we had big-panel modular synths, whose control layout and patching jacks gave some clues as to what went where and could be harnessed to do what. But SMT construction and microcontrollers mean that more and more functions are being packed into smaller and smaller spaces, making it more difficult for users to have a mental picture of how they would set things to achieve some imagined sound. The Flanger Hoax WAS entirely analog, but still gives you some idea of how a product can tank because it is not immediately self-evident. Sometimes, usability is as important, if not moreso, than capability.

[bob p]

i guess that means that you can't answer my question?

[Mark Hammer]

If that's directed at me, I simply lost track of what the question was supposed to be. Is it a recommendation for a simple-to-use inexpensive flanger?

If so, and if you are leery of taking a prized A/DA out of the house, Behringer makes a clone of the Liqui-Flange in the form of the FL600 Flanger Machine. The Line 6 Tonecore version has tap tempo, but I don't know if the Behringer version does. When you can find them, they usually retail for $60 or so.

[potatofarmer]

Glad to see the flanger hoax getting a couple mentions. I have one, and it's my favorite modulation pedal. It doesn't do wet panning, but it does have three outputs (clean, effect, blend). It gets intense - but that tends to happen when you make a through-zero flanger out of two phasers. I've never been quite able to get the same sound out of it twice, but it always sounds good so it doesn't really matter.

This page does a good rundown of what it does and how: mode zero - phase shifter phaser flanger chorus delay vintage effects photos mp3 demos

[bob p]

Part of the problem that I've seen with the new EH flanger demos is that they seem to be too intense, compared to the vintage Electric Mistress, which I think was more subtle. Listening to the demos, they remind me of watching an LCD TV, where all of the colors are so intense that it looks like you're watching an animated comic book. There's no subtlety in color any more. All of the bits are at their limit. My problem is that I can't tell if the flangers are just that intense, or if the problem is that the people demoing them don't understand subtlety and they are intent on hitting me over the head with a hammer.

Mark, I'm not looking for something cheap, it's just that I'd prefer not to lose a piece of expensive vintage gear that would be very hard to replace. The A/DA falls into the hard to find and expensive when you find it category. OTOH, something like the new production EH isn't all that expensive and is very easy to find. My question really, is what's good that compres to the old Mistress.

Regarding cheap stuff -- I have nothing against cheap stuff, I hear the Mistress clones like the Mooer e-Lady are pretty good. As is the Donner Jet Convolution, which is supposed to be a clone of the e-Lady (now we have clones of clones!). But I was really trying to get a handle on how the new EH stuff compares to the old EH stuff. I prefer to support the American designers rather than the Chinese IP-violators whenever I can.

FWIW I have not had good results with Behringer gear in the past. All of the Behringer pro audio stuff has failed early. It seems that most Behringer stuff isn't made to last, and it doesn't last very long. (Knocking on wood with my Bugera amps...)

[Mark Hammer]

One of the inherent limitations of many analog flangers is that tey can't sweep up high enough, or rather, can't sweep down to ultra-short delays under 1msec. E.g., the Boss BF-2 only goes down to 1msec, and no further. The constraint is the input capacitance of the clock pins on the BBD, as well as the potential clock frequency of the MN3102 used to drive it. The A/DA uses buffering to goose the current of the clock signal and overcome the input capacitance of the BBD. I've seen the same BBD used in the BF-2 clocked up to 1.5mhz, yielding fantastic jet plane sounds.

The other thing about being able to sweep to ultra-short delays is that with the notches all situated in the upper range (at short delays), it doesn't sound as boxey, especially if you set it for modest sweep width. The Liqui-Flange is capable of that, which is a nice feature. Try one out. I think you'll like it. And if cost is not a big consideration, go for the Line 6 version rather than the Behringer. It's a lot heavier, but the dual-action footswitch and tap tempo is useful. I think the Behringer does let you have tap tempo, but you need to hold the switch down for 2sec or something like that. The Line 6 version has to microswitches under the foot treadle, at different altitudes. Soft touch gets you tap tempo, and bypass takes a harder press.

[bob p]

Looking at Line6, it appears that the Liqua-Flange is out of production. Is this what you were referring to?

https://line6.com/tonecore/liquaflange.html

[Mark Hammer]

Yep.

People just don't know enough about how to use flangers. I imagine the EHX Flanger Hoax is also not in production anymore. Also a great pedal, but too damn deep for folks more accustomed to, and comfortable with, 3-knob pedals.