help me kill my synth

[angelo]

I got a guitar synth (gr-33). All I want to do is be able to easily switch from guitar to synth and also to guitar+synth. The synth and guitar go to different amps. NO a/b box can handle this contigency--as if no one has ever had this problem before. To make matters worse, the synth is stereo and the guitar is mono. I can think of a simple device, but I wonder what anyone else has to say.

[Mark Hammer]

Do you USE the GR-33 in stereo in a live situation? If not, then it seems to me that the simplest thing to do is to mix it down to mono, then treat it and the guitar signal like two ordinary mono signals with an A/B/Y box.

But of course, you note that they go to separate amps.

So here is what I would suggest. Make yourself a switching unit for each, using soft-touch momentary switches and FET, CMOS or other electronic switching that permits use of such switches. Treat each circuit separately as if it were a active/kill circuit; dual mono. Now situate the switches for each of those circuits in the switch box so that they are: a) close enough that you can hit them both at once with your foot, and b) far enough apart that you can hit one at a time.

This way, if the synth was on and the guitar off, you could place your foot over both switches, step and in one motion kill the synth and engage the guitar. If the guitar was on, the synth off and you wanted to add synth to the guitar, just step on the synth footswitch to enable it.

Sometimes, you have to let the software take some of the load off the hardware, or vice versa, and sometimes you have to let your foot take some of the burden off the circuitry.

Almost 20 years ago, I made myself a nifty rack unit with a bunch of Craig Anderton projects as effects modules, and an oboard splitter, mixer, and patch bay. The smartest thing I did was include two nondedicated electronic switch modules with a floor unit that had a layout of latched-switch/momentary-switch/momentary-switch/latched-switch. The two momentaries in the middle were simply paralleled clones/doppelgangers of the latching switches on the side. This way, if I wanted to, I could step on one or both momentaries in the middle with my foot, and engage one or two loops for a riff, then lift my foot and return to my prior tone just like that. OR...I could step on one of the latched SPST stompswitches at the side and leave a loop on while I busied myself with other things until it was time to switch back.

I know lots of folks are into true bypass stompswitches, and eschew electronic switching, but there is a whole lot of convenience to be accessed by uing electronic switches in smart ways. I strongly encourage one and all to consider creative use of paralleled latching and unlatched switches.

Note that the circuit I was using was the CD4016-based module from Anderton's EPFM book. This uses a latching SPST switch to actuate/reverse it. If you find flip-flop type FET-based switching of more use, take a peek at this generic DOD switch that appeared in Polyphony magazine some 23 years ago: http://hammer.ampage.org/files/dodswitch.gif

[Ace]

controlling the synth

I hook my synth to a volume pedal and fade it in as necessary. If I just want to switch back and forth I use the switch on my driver, or use my guitar volume control. good luck with it.

[angelo]

Mark,
I am planning on using it in stereo through the PA actually. I want to treat it like I see other bands treat their synths. I guess that means making one of the paths in the polyphony article stereo. Perhaps make one of the jacks stereo, and then just go along the path accordingly. I still need to study that thing a bit obviously.
As always your posts pack a punch. Out of nowhere with the polyphony article. Indeed, many possibilities are out there for switching schemes. I must admit I am a little reluctant to start another project, but just like in the case of all my projects; they either are too expensive or do not exist yet. Strange, you'd think some company would be capitalizing off of the need for guitarrists to switch between their effects.
Thanks again.

[Mark Hammer]

As always your posts pack a punch.

Thanks. I try.

Strange, you'd think some company would be capitalizing off of the need for guitarrists to switch between their effects.
Thanks again.

Well, they do. But there are just so many divergent switching needs out there that it becomes a question of staying on top of ALL the different products available (consider looking into some of the Tonebone pedals) or commissioning big bucks custom setups from guys like Bob Bradshaw.

I recently had the good fortune to get a backstage and frontstage tour, courtesy of one of the members of the Diystompbox forum, of the Sheryl Crow band's setup when they were recently in town. Here, the pedal-board has numeric displays to be scrolled through, and controls whole drawers full of stuff, as well as different amps, that are located offstage, all via relays, all courtesy of Bob Bradshaw and "mucho dinero". Sometimes, customs solutions are the only way.

[Zoe_N_Iain]

The DOD switch is great! I've played with electronic switching a few times before and could never get it quite right. They worked Ok but were always kind of glitchy. This one is both simpler and more elegant than any of the schemes I tried before.

I have a need for a multiswitch setup in a floorboard I'm building for a customer and this is perfect for the job.

Thanks, dude.

[angelo]

Wow, you know I found a german company called lehle who claims the sheryl crow guitarrist uses ther products for muli effects switching. I guess he moved on.

[angelo]

Ace, I don't get how the switch on the driver is supposed to work. How can it route the signal from my gibson pick-ups anywhere when that signal never passes through the gr-33 unit? Also, even if it did, will it send the synth signal to the synth amp and the guitar signal to the guitar amp?

[Mark Hammer]

Peter Stroud uses a ton of stuff. The guy is an absolute gearhead and loves to try out stuff and tinker (He was hard at work replacing some mica caps on his amp with some I brought him, 2hrs before stage time). You can find a stack of videos of him demoing various EHX products on youtube. It wouldn't surprise me if he had both Lehle and Bradshaw equipment.

[Ace]

set up

I run the guitar output to the synth driver with a mini plug. I take the guitar out of the synth( guitar out). I take the synth to the pa through a volume pedal. For a quick back and forth I use the switch on the synth pickup.

[angelo]

I run the guitar output to the synth driver with a mini plug. I take the guitar out of the synth( guitar out). I take the synth to the pa through a volume pedal. For a quick back and forth I use the switch on the synth pickup.

AHHH, that is what that eighth inch jack is for. DUH.

Apologies to everyone. I bought the gr-33 used, and it did not come with that little cable. I have had this thing for 3 months now and have not dared to bring it to rehersal because I could not switch it between guitar and synth.

Well, still, I could imagine alot of people would rather switch with their feet than their hands. I know I would. I'm building the dual kill switch, but at least I know I can use my synth in te meantime.

Thanks for the help. Guess this was not much of a music electronics question.http://music-electronics-forum.com/i...es/redface.gif

[KB9KXH]

I got a guitar synth (gr-33). All I want to do is be able to easily switch from guitar to synth and also to guitar+synth. The synth and guitar go to different amps. NO a/b box can handle this contigency--as if no one has ever had this problem before. To make matters worse, the synth is stereo and the guitar is mono. I can think of a simple device, but I wonder what anyone else has to say.

I have a GR20 with a GK3 controller on the guitar that does all the things you want, im not sure if it works with a gr33 or not having never used the 33 before.