Wiring a 3PDT to turn an effect on and off

[danielzink]

Okay,

I'm in the middle of a re-house here and I'm stuck......

Here's a pic of what I'm dealing with.

The original switch is the upside down six lug paddle switch that you see.

Flip it over and it soldered to the PCB just like you see (only the left 3 lugs on the PCB were soldered).

You see the other two switches that I've got laying around in the parts bin.

I don't care about true bypass or anyhting else right now - I'd just like to use an external switch to switch the pedal on and off.

I'd like to use the 3PDT - but there's 9 lugs and trying to mix and match the three leads from original switch on to the 9 lugs to find a combo that'll switch it on and off could take forever.

I've gotten it to work with the old black three lug switch but it takes a double hit to turn it on and off.


Anyone have any ideas ?

Thanks, Dan

[deluxe reverb92]

if im right, and i think i am, you won't be able to use the 3pdt switch. im pretty sure the original switch (is that a danelectro pedal?) is momentary or something like that. you can get a momentary switch, but id keep the original and then get one of those things they sell that looks like the top of a 3pdt or similar switch, but is just used to hit the real switch. i dunno......lol......let us know how it goes :-)

[danielzink]

It's not a Dano pedal - it's actually a First Act Delay from Toy's R' Us.

Dan

[deluxe reverb92]

http://www.smallbearelec.com/Detail.bok?no=32

ah, well go to that link, and you'll see what i mean......that way you can use the same board and switch and just use that to turn it on and off......i think that'd be best :-)

[danielzink]

This all got me thinking (dangerous) - so I disassembled the stock switch.

Yep it's a momentary. When you push it down a tiny pivoting paddle just flicks between two contacts.

So now I need a full size momentary switch ?

Any suggestions.

The Small Bear thing is neat - but if I re-attach the stock switch - it's going to be located in a very inconvenient place to use the "faux" switch..

I'd like to have more flexibilty as to switch placement.

Thanks !
Dan

[frank.clarke]

Identify the input and output wire and see if the effect is on when you connect to the jack sockets. If so, google "3pdt true bypass" and on you go. The six lug probably isn't a momentary switch.

[deluxe reverb92]

haha, nah, that pedal for sure isn't true bypass! true bypass might be good if the bypass mucks up your tone, but if not, may as well leave it, as that kind of buffer can boost your signal in a chain of pedals. :-)

[danielzink]

Am I on track with the momentary switch idea ?

Dan

[deluxe reverb92]

i think you are, but i dunno if you'll find one that does the same thing.......which is why the actuator still might be the best way to go......in which case, you can get real jacks (not the kind that mount on the board), and then move the board (with the switch on it) wherever you want.......just a thought :-)

[danielzink]

go......in which case, you can get real jacks (not the kind that mount on the board), and then move the board (with the switch on it) wherever you want.......just a thought

pshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......my brother - we are waaaaaaaaayyyyy beyond that.......


Dan

[deluxe reverb92]

hahah pretty sweet.......is that the same pedal? nice......

[danielzink]

Yep,

here it is waiting for the rehouse.
the enclosure is from Small Bear along with decal paper.

I'm renaming it the "Geoffrey"

Dan

[deluxe reverb92]

hahah, very cool! gotta love small bear......i bough some germanium transistors from him for my fuzz face.

[52 Bill]

"I'm renaming it the "Geoffrey""
I love this! Maybe paint a giraffe pattern on the yellow case.

From the looks of the board and from your dissection of the original switch, what you need is a Single Pole Double Throw Momentary foot switch. Not something that will be easy to find. I've seen a lot of S.P.S.T. momentary switches used for channel switching, etc., but never a double throw version. You may have to build something that will work with Small Bear's switch activator to make this work.

[Mark Hammer]

1) It is a widespread, and I mean widespread, practice to use what might best be called "effect cancellation" on a great many pedals, rather than bypass. "Effect cancellation" would refer to simply breaking the connection between the 2nd "altered" signal copy and a mixing stage that combines clean and altered. This strategy is used for delays of both analog and digital stripe, choruses, flangers, phasers, and even reverb in amps for that matter. In stompboxes, the usual electronic strategy is to use a single FET as a virtual switch, making either a low-resistance path to let the 2nd copy through to the mixer, or else turning off and presenting a path that is a high-enough resistance that it may as well be open circuit.

The electronic flip-flop circuit used to do this is exactly the same as the more complex switching used for fuzzes and such, but since you only have to make/break one connection, only one side of the flip-flop is actually put to use. AT NO TIME IS THE CIRCUIT EVER BYPASSED. All that happens is that both possible signal versions are put to use, or only one of them is put to use. This is why I refer to it as "effect cancellation" rather than bypass.

Is this inferior to so-called "true bypass"? Maybe, maybe not, depending on the quality of the buffers included in the circuit and where the pedal is in your chain, as well as what you want the pedal to do for you. Myself, I don't believe in true bypass as intrinsically better than anything. It is useful in some contexts, less so in others. Same thing with buffered effect cancellation.

2) Should a person wish to use true bypass with an "effect cancel" type pedal, they will need to render the circuit board such that it is permanently in effect mode. At that point, they can simply treat it like any other circuit board and run in and out wires from the board to the switch and then the jacks.

Making the pedal permanently "on" with an effect-cancellation type circuit involves identifying the switching FET (very often a K30 or a K118, and the only one on the board), and bridging the drain and source pins. The flip-flop and everything will still be active, but the resistance of the path from the delay signal to the mixer stage will be 0 ohms regardless of what's doing with the flip flip. The picture shows 3 trannies. I imagine two will be for the flip-flop, and the third will be the switching FET.

Note that the pedal will always be designed to achieve effect/bypass volume balance, and is NOT designed to strive for circuit/true-bypass volume balance. There is a possibility you will experience some difference in volume level when you install TB, and will subsequently need to adjust the circuit in some way. If you are up for that, fine, but if you aren't then you may want to rethink this because *I* certainly don't know where to find a schematic of this pedal.

3) A lot of folks don't realize they can parallel the momentary footswitch in almost any pedal, and run that footswitch via a jack and cable (just like an expression pedal) to a more convenient location. In most instances, all the momentary switch does to make the flip-flop do its thing is temporarily connect to ground. And since it is a momentary switch, as long as you aren't pushing down on it, that ground connection is open. You could have 50 parallel momentary switches positioned all over the stage or you body, and the effect would only be engaged (or disengaged) when you push or step on one of them. You could position your pedals in a rack offstage, or on a shelf at waist-height for ease of adjustment, and simply have a bank of momentaries at your feet. No more figuring out how the heck to arrange your pedals on the pedalboard so you don't accidentally step on things or run wiring everywhere so they fit right. Your momentaries can simply go in a nice neat row from right to left or left to right, 1-2-3-4-5-6-etc.