Guitar multi-effects without modeling

[Rolf Johnson]

Like many of you, I like the tone of my old fashioned tube amp.

I am a semi-pro player, trying to progress, and have been considering the TC Electronics G System and the Boss GT-10. The G System is spendy and while the Boss unit is more affordable it also includes DSP amplifier models etc.

Most modeling products such as Line 6, require that you set your existing amplifier to a flat EQ setting. But I want to use my tube amplifier as my main tone, setting the EQ the way I like it (not flat) and be able to tweek the tone on the fly if necessary.

The unit should feature compressor, chorus, tap echo, reverb and should be switch-able from a floor unit with volume and wah pedals.

Most big name players use their favorite individual effects. But is there a mulit-effects unit that does only these simple effects without modeling?

What do you do to preserve the tone of your amplifier?

[Steve Conner]

This is JM2C, but I've tried a bunch of stuff over the years and always gone back to just plugging the guitar straight into the amp.

If you wanted just those four effects you listed, you might be as well to buy four stomp boxes. A compressor (I liked the Marshall ED-1, partly because it was cheap), a chorus (the Boss one is my favourite), a Line 6 Echo Park digital delay, and I don't know what for the reverb. I never liked the sound of reverb in front of a tube amp, it just turns everything to mud. I have a footswitchable spring reverb in my amp, so I use that. The reverb send comes off after the stages that overdrive, so it's not quite so muddy.

If you use a few separate stompboxes like this, your tone isn't getting mauled by A/D and D/A conversion, latency and rounding errors until you stomp on the digital delay. (I'm sure R.G. Keen or Mark Hammer will correct me on this if the Echo Park doesn't have an analog bypass.)

[defaced]

I don't know if you knew this or not, but since I've got an XT, I'd figured I'd chime in. With the Line 6 you can turn the amp and cab models off and just use the effects. There are also settings for the output mode which allows you to EQ the unit to accommodate the tone stack of your amp.

I've never been a stomp box player, so this may sound like a daft question, but aren't chorus, delay, and echo usually used in the FX loop, while distortion and compression usually used out front? This seems like it'd be difficult to find a single pedal that would do all unless it had two I/Os that effects could be assigned to.

[Rolf Johnson]

Yes, good suggestions, thanks!

I guess that despite the convenience of an all in one box, there really is no getting away from the proper order of gain and eq before the pre-amp and then looping in the time and modulation effects. The loop is the right place for a volume pedal too.

I also own a Pod XT and foot controller. How can I turn off the modeling? My manual is packed up after moving.

I'm using a Mesa Studio Pre with a 2/90 power amp and could just mount the XT on a rack tray for easy set-up. And with a good quality compressor before the pre-amp, I should be able to retain a good tone without spending a ton and using what I already have.

But those new toys always seem tempting...

Thank you,
rj

[defaced]

To turn the amp model off, follow these steps:
Hit "Edit"
Turn the "Effect Tweak" fully counter clockwise
You will arrive at a model called "no amp"
EQ to suite (I'm not sure if the EQ does anything significant, I don't have my stuff hooked up at the moment)

This will turn off the cab and mic models too.

You can also pull the manual off of Line 6's site if I've missed something here.

I did a quick search for "bypass" on the Line 6 forums and it looks like some people are doing this with good results. The X3 has an effects send which would allow you to assign effect to the front end of your amp and to the FX loop. It's about half the way down the page: http://line6.com/support/thread.jspa?threadID=14962

I agree, new toys always sound appealing. So many toys, too little money.

[Rolf Johnson]

Thank you Mike and Steve,

I will be trying the XT with a compressor in series with the guitar input at the next rehearsal. $100 for a compressor sure beats $1500 for something I haven't even had a chance to try out...

But this forum topic (guitar effects without amplifier modeling) has a lot of merit. The advancements of digital technology are fantastic. It is incredible how far we have come. But, the beautiful tone of a 1960's tube technology amplifer still rules! The amplifier is part of the musical instrument that is the "electric guitar" and deserves a lot of respect and careful consideration.

But how do we combine the old with the new, while enjoying the greatest benefits of both worlds?

You two have shown and reminded me of the way. Maybe some other posters have some good ideas too...Let's grind this topic up!

Thank you,
rj

[fjgaston]

Using the pod without modeling, will still keep the digital sound of the pod, even when all effect are bypassed.
To have your real amplifier sound (bypassing all the digital effect) I suggest you to use a true bypass or a A/B switch box.

[Steve Conner]

Has anyone ever tried a compromise tube/digital rig? Something like a Pod driving a stereo tube power amp into a pair of neutral-sounding 12s. I was going to say EVM12Ls, but they have a fair bit of character of their own.

[defaced]

Kinda. I'm working on a power amp conversion using iron from a Peavey Deuce that will drive a Peavey MS412. The preamp will be a Line 6 POD XT Live. If I had more resources (schematics and money), I'd definitely build a Hi-Fi amp and cab for this setup. Right now what I have doesn't sound bad, but it's a little too bass heavy - I think I can solve that with coupling cap values or an intermediate EQ (I'd rather not go that route though).

[cgiff]

Preamp effects into generic amp

I tried the preamp into a stero amp into 2 single 12" JBL cabs. This was my rig for a while. Preamp was an ART sgx 2000 express with the dual foot controller. Power amp was simply 2 50 watt solidstate power amps. The unit didn't sound good at all in retrospec. I tweaked the shit out of the art. but is still sounded digital which it is. despite the 12Ax7 preamp tube. lot of BS there. I built a matchless chieftain clone out of a traynor bassmaster. Plugged into it, Shit my pants and have not looked back. I have just plugged the guitar directly into the amo and rocked on. No tweaking just finger technique. I tired a couple of 2 amp setups using the chieftain and the SGX setup above, they don't mix to well. I added O'connor's best FX loop to the Chieftain. so I can get some reverb or delay through a parallel effect but anything else just feels and sounds wrong. I have been to some jams where everyone has various incarnations of Pods and amps. They do sound better than my SGX setup (which is 15 years old already)hoever tehy are not as good sounding as the direct feed to the chieftain. I do have another chieftain clone and a 6v6 based DC30 clone (not bragging I have added a A/B box withan Ibanez fl9 flanger set more as a chourus with a ts9 tube screamer as a boost. This is a nice setup gives some effects with the dc30 but the overall richness (sax) comes from the chieftain. Actually both amps complement each other. There is a 12 inch Jensen in the dc30 with the chieftain running a JBL and a celestion.There is an amp I noticed on you-tube and in Vintage Guitar mag called a "motor city amp" I think. it has midi controlled motorized pots with a pure tube pre and power amp. IMHO this is the way to go. add some technolgy to the true tube tone circuits.
cgiff