yone make a delay that senses input signal....

[daz]

.....and automatically adjusts for it so that the mix level stays the same? In case the reason isn't obvious, this would be great for those w/o an effects loop so you could use it in the front end and the delay mix would not change when you raise or lower your guitar volume. If no one makes one i would think it's a gold mine waiting to happen assuming the circuit is possible and w/o breaking the bank. Anyone know of one? I use a small amount of delay on all the times so I have to use a second amp for delay via my main amp's line out and set it 100% wet. Such a PITA when i could just put a pedal on my board if someone made a delay like that.

[Chuck H]

I don't know of any pedal like this, BUT, you could always run a compressor and delay in series (or delay and compressor, try it both ways) and then run those parallel to the other effects on the pedal board that don't need delay. I think that could get pretty close. The important detail is that you still need to run your guitar signal parallel to the compressor/delay or delay/compressor unit somehow.

[daz]

Thanks but thats not gonna do it for me. I'd rather buy a small digital amp with effects and run them full wet. Thats what i'm doing now with my modeler but i don't want a second full size amp to move around. Just seems like someone would have designed a delay like this by now. Surely i'm not the only one who runs a touch of delay all the time and uses their guitar volume for clean/dirt.

[Helmholtz]

Not sure I understand the problem.
As the delay signal is derived from the guitar signal, the mix ratio should stay the same no matter how you set your guitar volume.
In other words, the delay level is always proportional to the guitar level.

Only problem I could think of would be the delay path containing a noise gate that shuts off delay if the input signal is too low.

[daz]

Not sure I understand the problem.
As the delay signal is derived from the guitar signal, the mix ratio should stay the same no matter how you set your guitar volume.
In other words, the delay level is always proportional to the guitar level.

Only problem I could think of would be the delay path containing a noise gate that shuts off delay if the input signal is too low.

You haven't used delays like that then. Here's the deal....if the delay is BEFORE your distortion source, in this case the amp is where the distortion comes from, and you lower or raise the signal before the delay, it will intensify or lower the amount of delay. For example, say you run your guitar into a pedalboard where you have a delay and your amp is you distortion source. Then you set the delay so the delay amount is just right with your guitar on 10. The problem you will have is when you roll the guitar volume down the delay will all but disappear. If you set the delay so it's just right with your guitar on 5, when you turn it to 10 it will be so much delay it will be overbearing. An i'm not talking small changes. In the latter scenario if u set delay for example to be 20% as loud as the dry signal, turning the guitar to 10 would now have it at almost the same level as your dry signal. The opposite scenario would be that the delay would totally disappear. This is what wee have effects loops !

So in short it's not about the signal level from the guitar in and of itself, it's the distortion generator, in this case the amp's cascaded preamp that multiplies the delay strength. This doers not happen if the distortion is created BEFORE the delay. Try it and see.

[Helmholtz]

I occasionally use a delay pedal after the TS and I always use my guitar volume.
Not aware of the effect you describe, but I don't have much amp distortion.

If the delay completely drops out at low input signal, I still think there must be a noise gate involved.

[Greg Robinson]

I think we're all missing something... Normally if you're using amp distortion, delay in front of the amp isn't desirable, as your repeats get clipped and compressed and you lose the fading of repeats. But if you put it in the effects loop, it's post clipping, so you maintain that fade-out and relative mix (repeats don't get clipped and compressed). If you DO have it in the loop, then the delay will be indifferent to how much you're clipping the guitar (so long as the loop signal is not too hot and clipping the input to the delay). Turn up for dirt, turn down for clean, the delay won't care, it'll maintain the same wet-to-dry ratio.

Ah wait, I think I get it now. You're using a wet-dry amp rig, and want to AVOID adding an effects loop. So you run both your wet and dry paths from your pedalboard. If you set your delay mix with the guitar rolled back for clean, when you turn up, the "dry" path gets clipped and compressed while your "wet" path stays clean and so the "wet" path gets proportionately louder than the "dry" path. Reverse is true if you set the mix for your dirty tone, with the wet becoming inaudible when you turn down for clean.

Probably your best bet would be to run an attenuated line-out from the speaker of your "dry" amp, run it through your delay and into your wet amp. This'll mean that your repeats will be of the clipped signal when you turn up for your dirty tone, but that would *normally* be considered desirable. If you wanted your repeats to always be of the clean signal, well, that gets more complicated...

[daz]

I occasionally use a delay pedal after the TS and I always use my guitar volume.
Not aware of the effect you describe, but I don't have much amp distortion.

If the delay completely drops out at low input signal, I still think there must be a noise gate involved.

"Not much distortion"....that would be why. Theres no noise gate. Do you have a amp that has a preamp capable of distortion? If so try it and see. Trust me ! I'm not a tech by any stretch but i've played for 50 years and much of that in bar bands so i DO know what i'm talking about. Just give it a try.

[Helmholtz]

Theres no noise gate. .

So you've analysed the circuit of your delay?

[daz]

I think we're all missing something... Normally if you're using amp distortion, delay in front of the amp isn't desirable, as your repeats get clipped and compressed and you lose the fading of repeats. But if you put it in the effects loop, it's post clipping, so you maintain that fade-out and relative mix (repeats don't get clipped and compressed). If you DO have it in the loop, then the delay will be indifferent to how much you're clipping the guitar (so long as the loop signal is not too hot and clipping the input to the delay). Turn up for dirt, turn down for clean, the delay won't care, it'll maintain the same wet-to-dry ratio.

Ah wait, I think I get it now. You're using a wet-dry amp rig, and want to AVOID adding an effects loop. So you run both your wet and dry paths from your pedalboard. If you set your delay mix with the guitar rolled back for clean, when you turn up, the "dry" path gets clipped and compressed while your "wet" path stays clean and so the "wet" path gets proportionately louder than the "dry" path. Reverse is true if you set the mix for your dirty tone, with the wet becoming inaudible when you turn down for clean.

Probably your best bet would be to run an attenuated line-out from the speaker of your "dry" amp, run it through your delay and into your wet amp. This'll mean that your repeats will be of the clipped signal when you turn up for your dirty tone, but that would *normally* be considered desirable. If you wanted your repeats to always be of the clean signal, well, that gets more complicated...

Nope. I'm only running a wet/dry now because the amp has no loop. I'm not talking about wet dry. I'm talking single amp and a delay. It's simple, try it if you don't get what i'm saying. Run your guitar into a delay then into the amp input. Set the amp for distortion. Now set the delay so theres just enough t keep it from sounding dry. Now roll the guitar down to 5. Delay is gone. Or try a clean boost on the pedal board. Delay will go thru the roof and you'll be in space city. Try it. If you don't get that result then we are living on different planets.

[daz]

So you've analysed the circuit of your delay?

do all delays have noise gates? I have used countless delays since the 70s from analog to digital and every one does this. Again, try it then we'll talk. In fact we won't need to because u will then agree.

[Mick Bailey]

I don't get that with my own delay pedals - the delay mix is linear with regard to the guitar's volume control. I also sometimes use a delay before the distortion (using the amp's distortion). However, my two main pedals don't use any form of noise reduction, other than one has an LED where the forward voltage drop is used as a signal limiter just to prevent the delay from clipping on large signal inputs. Many delays use some form of noise reduction in the form of companding. This can alter signal dynamics, but how non-linear this is compared to the input signal level depends on the circuit. When I experimented with companding delay signals I didn't think it sounded as good as a noisier uncompanded delay.

[Greg Robinson]

No, we're living on the same planet. The solution is an effects loop.

[daz]

No, we're living on the same planet. The solution is an effects loop.

thats what i said. But everyone seems clueless about this phenomenon so i made a quick video. Let me see if i can find a way to upload it and post it.

[daz]

Here ya go, a video. Amp set for distortion and didn't mess with getting gain staging right so the level drove the amp even with guitar down. But like i said ****this happens with ANY delay i have ever used be it a pedal or DSP. I am using a DSP here because i don't have a delay pedal at the moment. But you'll just have to believe me when i tell you i'm NOT lying to you, this happens with ANY of the many 50 delays i have owned. Heres the video link https://files.fm/u/uk45zatxf