RAT question

[Greg_L]

U answered your own question.

But you didn't answer mine. Have you tried other pedals that will actually do what you want? Some of the klon clones are really nice. You can build your own Ghost Drive from Stewmac pretty easily and relatively cheaply.

[nosaj]

You might be right...I remember buying it in the late 80s but it could have very well been early 90s. I got it in high school and I graduated 1991 so it must be from that time period. I know it does definitely have the LM308 chip because I've seen it in there. I'm not gonna mod it though. I'm content to just sit on it until it becomes so ridiculously valuable that it's worth selling.

Class of 91 here too.
nosaj

[daz]

But you didn't answer mine. Have you tried other pedals that will actually do what you want? Some of the klon clones are really nice. You can build your own Ghost Drive from Stewmac pretty easily and relatively cheaply.

Of course. But the point here is i happen to think the rat is very different than anything else and that nothing sounds and more importantly feels like it and i love it. But here the real reason why that question is a moot point.... i don't NEED OR WANT a pedal that will do what i say because the amp already does that. Only reason i use the rat is the same reason why when i want pizza I'm not gonna be trying to find a burger that tastes better.

[Chuck H]

I'm content to just sit on it until it becomes so ridiculously valuable that it's worth selling.

Well check about what I mentioned above then regarding the board layout. No one seems to be making much about it yet but when the reissues come up collectible you can bet there will "preferred" models because people get persnickety when things start getting real. If you have the one with the original big box board layout, as I suspect you do, it will probably be considered the "better" and therefor more collectible version. BUT...

Our dear departed member Steve A did a chip test with his own RAT pedal to report on the sound. He tested many but the chip in question here is the LM308N. He tested three versions of that chip. This was years ago but he managed to procure an NOS National Semiconductor, a few NOS Motorola chips and a just for giggles he also bought three recent model National Semiconductor chips from China. He reported that the NOS National Semiconductor chip was the winner hands down. The Motorola was a close second. And all three of the east Asian LM308N chips sounded like @$$. I looked in my own big box reissue and it definitely has the east Asian chip in it. There's always the suspicion of counterfeits too and that could be the case even for the ProCo made product. I'm recalling a situation where a well known amp manufacturer was discovered to have used some counterfeit Atom capacitors but I can't remember the details. At any rate, east Asian made legit National Semiconductor or counterfeit National Semiconductor, doesn't matter. It's not the chip you want. I read that ProCo went to some trouble to find US made National Semiconductor chips for the most recent "White Face RAT" reissue pedal. Photo's I've seen of the boards in those pedals seems to confirm this. And...

Word on having the "right" LM308N chip is gaining ground. So, just in case it might affect the value of your investment you may want to find a legit US made National Semiconductor or Motorola chip if they can still be had.

My own big box reissue is collecting dust just like yours. I owned an original white face model and I can say that the tone of my big box reissue is NOT that sound and I don't even use it. I probably won't chase down a chip for it though since it has the Rat2 circuit board and so probably won't ever be very valuable.

[Greg_L]

Well check about what I mentioned above then regarding the board layout. No one seems to be making much about it yet but when the reissues come up collectible you can bet there will "preferred" models because people get persnickety when things start getting real. If you have the one with the original big box board layout, as I suspect you do, it will probably be considered the "better" and therefor more collectible version. BUT...

Our dear departed member Steve A did a chip test with his own RAT pedal to report on the sound. He tested many but the chip in question here is the LM308N. He tested three versions of that chip. This was years ago but he managed to procure an NOS National Semiconductor, a few NOS Motorola chips and a just for giggles he also bought three recent model National Semiconductor chips from China. He reported that the NOS National Semiconductor chip was the winner hands down. The Motorola was a close second. And all three of the east Asian LM308N chips sounded like @$$. I looked in my own big box reissue and it definitely has the east Asian chip in it. There's always the suspicion of counterfeits too and that could be the case even for the ProCo made product. I'm recalling a situation where a well known amp manufacturer was discovered to have used some counterfeit Atom capacitors but I can't remember the details. At any rate, east Asian made legit National Semiconductor or counterfeit National Semiconductor, doesn't matter. It's not the chip you want. I read that ProCo went to some trouble to find US made National Semiconductor chips for the most recent "White Face RAT" reissue pedal. Photo's I've seen of the boards in those pedals seems to confirm this. And...

Word on having the "right" LM308N chip is gaining ground. So, just in case it might affect the value of your investment you may want to find a legit US made National Semiconductor or Motorola chip if they can still be had.

My own big box reissue is collecting dust just like yours. I owned an original white face model and I can say that tone of my big box reissue is NOT that sound and I don't even use it. I probably won't chase down a chip for own though since it has the Rat2 circuit board and so probably won't ever be very valuable.

Good info, thanks. I might look into it more. I honestly forget I even have that pedal until I see or hear Rat-talk pop up somewhere.

One thing that I know matters though....I still have the box!

[Greg_L]

Only reason i use the rat is the same reason why when i want pizza I'm not gonna be trying to find a burger that tastes better.

Okay then, bon apetit!

[Chuck H]

Now I'm hungry.

[htrd]

He tested three versions of that chip. This was years ago but he managed to procure an NOS National Semiconductor, a few NOS Motorola chips and a just for giggles he also bought three recent model National Semiconductor chips from China. He reported that the NOS National Semiconductor chip was the winner hands down. The Motorola was a close second. And all three of the east Asian LM308N chips sounded like @$$.

Well, I've tried eight different chips in the same circuit, including two NOS NSC LM308AN, Motorola LM308H, two AMD LM108H, NSC LM301AH, unknown NSC LM308N (probably Chinese) and TI OP07. There were slight differences between all of them, but nothing outstanding. Biggest one was between both AMD chips.

[Chuck H]

Well, I've tried eight different chips in the same circuit, including two NOS NSC LM308AN, Motorola LM308H, two AMD LM108H, NSC LM301AH, unknown NSC LM308N (probably Chinese) and TI OP07. There were slight differences between all of them, but nothing outstanding. Biggest one was between both AMD chips.

Thank you for the report.

[htrd]

Some reamps with different gain and eq settings, strat and humbucker equipped guitars.

[Chuck H]

I hear no difference without wondering if I may be imagining it.

And my compliments on your choice of the opening tune

[Chuck H]

Well, I've tried eight different chips in the same circuit, including two NOS NSC LM308AN, Motorola LM308H, two AMD LM108H, NSC LM301AH, unknown NSC LM308N (probably Chinese) and TI OP07. There were slight differences between all of them, but nothing outstanding. Biggest one was between both AMD chips.

Just so we're clear, what does "in the same circuit" mean? Did you try these different chips in a RAT pedal or something else? Even many RAT "inspired" clones compensate for things where the RAT circuit does not. In the actual RAT circuit the LM308n suffers performance issues (for better or worse depending) that other chips don't and even the LM308n can perform equal in a corrected circuit. So I'm wondering if this is apples to apples because I can clearly hear the difference between chips in an actual RAT pedal on many *outube clips.

EDIT: Also, you're either the most consistent player I've ever heard or you used some kind of loop for every track. And if you did it sort of skews the test because the RAT pedal responds differently to guitar pickups than it does to a lower impedance recorded output.

[htrd]

Just so we're clear, what does "in the same circuit" mean? Did you try these different chips in a RAT pedal or something else?

This was a whiteface rat clone (not corrected) with a blendable hm2 tonestack after it (used only in the humbucker part). The same means that I've swapped chips in the same pedal, same setup and settings.

EDIT: Also, you're either the most consistent player I've ever heard or you used some kind of loop for every track. And if you did it sort of skews the test because the RAT pedal responds differently to guitar pickups than it does to a lower impedance recorded output.

It was reamped using a transformer based reamp box, so impedance was high. Anyway, I've done a bunch of tests using a few rat clones, played live or reamped, different guitars and pickups, results were the same more or less - difference can be heard, but it is minimal and uneven. A little more is in dynamic reaction when played live - some chips sag more, especially with hot and bass heavy input signal.