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Help with 1970s Guyatone Moving Box Flanger - SAD1024

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  • Help with 1970s Guyatone Moving Box Flanger - SAD1024

    Hi everyone,

    I've been working on a Guyatone PS107 Moving Box Flanger, after a search online I found out that the PCB was identical to a Vox flanger, schematic attached.

    What happened so far:
    This pedal suffered from a corroded potentiometer, which caused a short in the circuit (I think) - the diode to ground in the power supply section kept running very hot. After replacing it and tweaking the trim pots, I was able to get the flange effect back, but the LED switching was not working.

    I figured I'd convert the pedal to true bypass, to circumvent the problem, so I installed a 3PDT switch, but without modifying the rest of the circuit. Initially, there was a DPDT switch with input, effect out and output connected.

    After connecting the pedal back to 18V DC, the 2SC-1175 transistor at the beginning of the power supply circuit started smoking and almost split in half, leaving me wondering what happened, and what to do next.

    The problem:
    I've been trying to understand where I went wrong, and how to proceed. I removed the transistor for now, which means the 18V DC is connected through a diode to ground (2SC-1175 collector used to be here), as well as a resistor and 22uf capacitor to ground (2SC-1175 base used to be here). It is also connected from the same spot through a different diode to the LED. As far as I can tell, nothing connects the 18V to the rest of the circuit.

    The question:
    Can I simply bridge where emitter and collector used to be, to get DC voltage to the circuit? Also, why is there a diode between the 18V DC and the LED, is this necessary?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated!

    Edit: I tried bridging the emitter and collector (with the SAD1024 removed, just in case), but D3 in the schematic ran very hot again. I also tested D1 which seems to be fine, but I think the LED blew at some point..


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    Last edited by clarisso11; 12-20-2023, 01:53 PM.

  • #2
    The D3 diode is reverse biased when using the correct power supply. According to the schematic that would be tip positive.
    If your supply is correct and D3 gets hot, the diode must be bad.
    Originally posted by Enzo
    I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


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    • #3
      ^^^^^^That. Are you sure you have the correct power supply?
      "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

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      • #4
        Thanks both for the comments! According to the enclosure it should be negative tip (photo attached). I was able to get the effect working again with the same 18V negative tip power supply, before I converted to true bypass.
        I had this issue of an overheating D3 initially, which went away after I replaced the corroded potentiometer, D3, and also the MC4013AE, although I'm not sure that was bad.

        Just to check, is removing the 2SC-1175 and connecting emitter and collector the correct approach, as a first step?

        Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0274.jpg Views:	0 Size:	2.50 MB ID:	990975


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        • #5
          Originally posted by clarisso11 View Post
          Can I simply bridge where emitter and collector used to be, to get DC voltage to the circuit? Also, why is there a diode between the 18V DC and the LED, is this necessary?
          No. You cannot connect the collector and emitter. Such a connection will cause IC4(Vmax-17V) to fail, and IC5(Vmax-18V) will be on the verge of failure.
          The LED is needed to make it more fun for the guitarist to play in the light.
          More correctly, it is an indication that the console is turned on.​

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by x-pro View Post

            No. You cannot connect the collector and emitter. Such a connection will cause IC4(Vmax-17V) to fail, and IC5(Vmax-18V) will be on the verge of failure.
            The LED is needed to make it more fun for the guitarist to play in the light.
            More correctly, it is an indication that the console is turned on.​
            Thank you for the explanation, I'm glad I didn't have IC4 installed while testing! I intend to connect the LED to the 3pdt true bypass mechanical switch.

            To make this work, do I need to first replace the 2SC-1175 transistor? Does it have some kind of voltage limiting function?

            I'm trying to get this pedal back to a state where D3 is not overheating, and Q1 is not smoking and failing again.. Shall I do any testing for now with IC4 and IC5 removed?

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by clarisso11 View Post
              To make this work, do I need to first replace the 2SC-1175 transistor? Does it have some kind of voltage limiting function?

              I'm trying to get this pedal back to a state where D3 is not overheating, and Q1 is not smoking and failing again.. Shall I do any testing for now with IC4 and IC5 removed?
              This transistor with zener diode is a 15-16V voltage stabilizer. So much for the limitation.
              It is necessary to put either this transistor or an analog. Supply power according to the polarity and then D3 will not overheat.​

              Comment


              • #8
                transistors to be replaced: MPSA42 (socket match),
                2N5551, 2N2222 (connect according to socket)​

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by x-pro View Post
                  transistors to be replaced: MPSA42 (socket match),
                  2N5551, 2N2222 (connect according to socket)​
                  Thank you, do you know if BC237 would work, if I match the pinout? I think they look close according to datasheets, and I have some here.

                  I will check D3 again to see if it failed, and test for overheating with IC4 and IC5 disconnected. I will try a negative tip 18V DC power supply again, since that has worked before and is specified on the enclosure.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    BC237 The collector current is less, but you can try it.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by x-pro View Post
                      BC237 The collector current is less, but you can try it.
                      Thanks! I just tried this (double-checking I got the pinout right of the BC237), and Q1 gets very hot, not D3. So whatever problem caused the original Q1 to smoke and crack still seems to be present.

                      To the best of my knowledge, something happened after I installed the 3pdt switch:

                      1. From a working circuit (apart from the LED switching), I just took the necessary wires to connect the 3PDT, I did not change anything on the main PCB
                      2. I remember testing the 3pdt to see if the LED switched correctly, and it did
                      3. While on the 18V power supply, before I could test it with guitar, Q1 suddenly smoked and cracked
                      4. Checking it now, Q1 gets hot again

                      Photos attached, the LED is currently disconnected.



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                      • #12
                        What is the resistance between emitter Q1 and anode D1 in a switched off set-top box.

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                        • #13
                          Just to check, D1 is the red diode marked "B3", right? Resistance between D1 cathode and Q1 emitter is high (3+ Megaohm).

                          I just noticed that D1 anode used to be connected to the LED, but it is currently not connected to anything. And while connected to true bypass, D1 would also not have been connected to ground with the effect turned off.

                          Maybe this is the issue that caused Q1 to smoke, and now causing it again to overheat, D1 not connected to anything? Maybe I just need to connect the anode to ground, as shown on the schematic?

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                          • #14
                            Everything has to follow a pattern.
                            And need a resistance between the emitter and the Anode​

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by x-pro View Post
                              BC237 The collector current is less, but you can try it.
                              If there is a faulty element in the circuit or the current consumption of the device is greater than 100mA, the transistor will heat up

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