Music Production Software...

[Steve A.]

If that were the case then Microsoft Windows should cost U$ 5?

Good point! Microsoft has a great racket going, monopolizing the operating systems for PC computers. So how many legal copies of DOS and Windows have we all had at one time, paid for either directly or indirectly? I think I had about 6 copies of MS-DOS and have purchased maybe 8 copies of Windows along with another 8 copies that came with computers I bought but no longer use. You'd think that I've already paid enough for a lifetime license for whatever operating system Microsoft is selling (actually 2 or 3 licenses for all of my computers).

I wonder how much Microsoft charges vendors for the copy of Windows included with the computers they sell. You *know* that cost is passed on the consumer.

Steve Ahola

P.S. The copy of Cubase LE mentioned in this thread may have been bundled with hardware and is only to be used with that hardware. (Sometimes the software will search for proof that such hardware is installed in the computer.) I think that we should get some sort of credit for all of the unused limited edition software we have received over the years. I guess what I am suggesting is an unlimited site license good for all updates and upgrades once we have spent a certain amount of money on specific operating systems and programs.

I think the the software company Borel had the best attitude towards copy protection and the sharing of their programs. At least for awhile they never used copy protection so that customers could make backup copies of the program discs (5 1/4" and 3 1/2" floppies). Their policy was that their software was like a book- you could loan it out to someone else to read but whenever you loaned it out you shouldn't be using it on your own computer- just like you couldn't be reading a book while loaning it out to someone else. A great policy but Borel did go out of business...

P.P.S If people could acquire lifetime licenses to software then how would the software companies have enough money to invest for R&D? Perhaps they could continue the practice of business customers buying site licenses and paying for upgrades. Or perhaps switch to the subscription model where the businesses pay so much a month for each computer running a particular OS or program.

[Steve Conner]

Shush, you'll have the DMCA all over us.

I've been playing with Reaper. They claim it is lightweight and runs fast, so I installed it on an ancient IBM Thinkpad 600 with a 500MHz processor. I used a M-Audio Transit audio interface plugged into the laptop's only USB 1.1 port.

Not only did it work, but I was able to make a glitch-free recording with a couple of tracks, and even get the latency low enough to play guitar through the amp simulator. It has a "Dumble Overdrive Special" preset, WTF. The user interface is indeed easy to work, and reminds me of my old favourite Cubase VST.

I don't know whether to be impressed that this laptop (which was about to go in the bin) is actually a functional recording tool, or depressed at all the bloat that the other popular DAWs must have.

[Steve A.]

Well i recently built a computer and after using it awhile iv decided id like to upgrade/change the audio set up a bit. My main issue/concern is that the case i have, "raidmax skyline" has some really really crappy useless 1/8th stereo jacks on the front of it. The is a mic in and a line out but both are so cheap/make a bad connection so not really useful. The integrated audio on the motherboard is great and that's what iv been using but it is very big inconvenience to pull my computer out from the wall every time i need to plug or unplug something which is getting to be more and more as im started to experiment with recording music. What i would like is a better audio interface on the front of my computer. Possibly something that fits in one of the cd drive bays as i have 4 not being used. I think i would like multiple 1/8th jacks "6 would be good" and if possible maybe some rca jacks or even a few 1/4th stereo/mono jacks as well. Im not sure whats available for front mounted aftermarket audio interfaces so i thought id check. So far the closest thing to what i want that i found was this: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820162031 but this doesnt do much for me as you loose all of the jacks on the back of the computer with this setup.
I would just get a discrete audio card but i really really want the jacks to be on the front of the computer vs. the back. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks...

Your link to NewEgg is broken so I don't know what product you are referring to. One solution would be to plug extension cables and adaptors into the jacks on the back of your computer. I did have a fancy SoundBlaster card that had a module that would fit in a 5 1/4" drive bay with multiple jack and a volume control for your headphones. Pretty slick but a software incompatibility rendered it useless for me so I had top replace it (there is an old thread here discussing that problem.)

For serious recordings you probably would not want to use the motherboard audio or a soundcard- they make digital audio cards and USB or Firewire devices which are capable of higher resolutions and low latency duplex operations (necessary if you want to record a new track while listening to an existing track). There are many digital audio adaptors using USB 2.0 that work great, and avoid some of the problems you can run into with cards plugged into a computer bus. Pro-Tools is one company that makes high quality devices, M-Audio is another.

Steve Ahola

[broken flyer]

Sorry don't know what happened with the link. I'll give it another try. Never had any issues with links before. Newegg.com - Koutech IO-FPM530 Multi-in-1 USB 3.0 Multifunction SuperSpeed Front Panel Card Reader with eSATA / HD Audio Ports (5.

[Steve A.]

Sound cards and on-board audio work fine with Band in the Box for creating backing tracks. Another option is to use an external digital recorder to record the backing tracks along with your overdubbed vocals and guitar. I have gotten great results using an external device for the actual recording and my computer for editing and mixing those tracks but YMMV.

Steve

P.S. It looks like the audio jacks on that $35 device from NewEgg are basically like color-coded extension cables terminating in 1/8" jacks. I think it would be better to use your own extension cables and have them match what you will be plugging in.

I don't know if anyone has addressed this issue yet but mobo mic inputs are for cheap condensor mikes (the ones that terminate in a 1/8" jack.) IMO you really need a decent mike preamp which would be plugged into the line input jacks or a USB port. Two channels and two microphones if you intend to record your vocals and guitar amp simultaneously. If you want to plug your guitar in direct rather than miking an amp you would want to use a preamp designed especially for that. You might want to stop by a local store to get an idea of what is available.

[Steve Conner]

Yep, I think you'll be wanting an outboard audio interface like the M-Audio Fast Track.

I haven't used the Fast Track but I've owned several other M-Audio products and they all worked great.

[Steve A.]

Yep, I think you'll be wanting an outboard audio interface like the M-Audio Fast Track.

Here are two 2 channel 24 bit/48khz USB audio interfaces from the GC site:

GC has the Lexicon Alpha at 50% off for $99.99:
Lexicon Alpha USB Desktop Recording Studio and more Audio Interfaces at GuitarCenter.com.

M-Audio Fast Track Pro MKII $119 ($30 off MSRP):
M-Audio Fast Track MKII USB Audio Interface with Pro Tools SE and more Audio Convertors at GuitarCenter.com.

Both of these have a high Z input for guitar and an XLR input for a microphone. The M-Audio (now just called the "Fast Track" on the M-Audio site since the original single channel Fast Track has been discontinued) has phantom power while the Lexicon doesn't. However, the Lexicon has line inputs as well as the XLR/Instrument inputs so I think that makes it more versatile.

One complaint about both of them (as well as many other portable adaptors) is that they are powered only by the USB bus so you cannot use them as stand-alone mixers.
Steve Ahola

P.S. In the past M-Audio was outstanding in updating the drivers for their digital audio cards. I don't think that drivers for USB connected devices are as critical as the cards but it tells me that the company is concerned about their customers rather than just taking their money and running for the hills.

Best deal I found so far today: the Tascam US-800 with 8 inputs (6 analog, 2 digital) and a 5vdc power jack (hooray!) for $99.99 (Note: it is not powered by the USB bus)

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...85396000000000

http://www.amazon.com/Tascam-US-800-.../dp/B0034O4I20

The Tascam US-100 is your basic 2 in / 2 out USB audio with a choice between Mic/Inst and Line inputs. But what is way cool is that the line inputs can be switched to a phono input with the RIAA curve perfect for vinyl rips, or just listening to your LP's with a stereo that lacks a phono input. $69.99

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-a...udio-interface

http://www.amazon.com/Tascam-US-100-.../dp/B002QQC1ZI

IMO it is much easier to browse through MF offerings on the Amazon site- on the MF site everything is buried so deep that unless you know exactly what you are looking for you probably won't find it. And Google usually shows MF hits on the Amazon site before the hits on the MF site.

I dl'd the manuals for all of these adaptor since I don't trust sales blurbs. The Windows or Mac control panel for the US-800 gives you a lot more control than the knobs on the front of the mixer. Like mixing the 8 channels of the mixer with 6 channels from the computer.

[Steve A.]

A question about phantom power and Neutrik jacks

I've been reading the manual for the Tascam US-800 (a great deal for $99.99!) and the phantom power can be switched on for all 6 mic inputs or none of them. The manual mentions that you do not want to plug in an unbalanced mic when phantom power is on. That makes sense since there is 48vdc to ground from both halves of the balanced signal; with an unbalanced mic one of the signal lines is connected to ground so there would be a dead short. Pzzzzt!

Ok here is my question about how Neutrik jacks are normally wired and how they are probably wired in the US-800 (for channels 1-6). If you use the 1/4" line input for Channels 3-6 it is a balanced TRS jack. When phantom power is on is it sent to the balanced 1/4" TRS jacks? I ask because the line output for many devices uses an unbalanced cable so the ring is shorted to the sleeve, which would work fine unless there was phantom power going to the Tip and the Ring. Pzzzt!

I would guess that phantom power is not usually used with a 1/4" TRS jack since the act of inserting a 1/4" stereo plug in the jack would create temporary short circuits as the tip and ring touch the grounded sleeve. (With an XLR jack the 3 conductors are not shorted together.)

I am asking for confirmation of that since I think it is critical: I might have two mics plugged in that require phantom power along with unbalanced line outputs from a drum machine or a sound module. And I want music not Pzzzt!

Thanks!

Steve Ahola

Here is a link to the US-800 page at the Tascam site:

http://tascam.com/product/us-800/

P.S. This looks like the hands-down winner for a full featured USB digital audio adaptor for under $100 (or $150 for that matter).

[Steve Conner]

The Neutrik combo jacks have 6 separate contacts. 3 for the XLR and another 3 for the TRS.

I'd be very surprised if phantom power were fed to the TRS jack. Seems like it would Pzzzt any equipment you plugged into it, too. It should be a separate circuit with maybe a pad to raise the impedance, or maybe it even bypasses the first stage of the mic pre.

[Steve A.]

Thanks! I ordered the US-800 last night. I guess that dynamic microphones with an XLR plug will not short anything out if the phantom power is turned on globally? I read something like that with a warning that some ribbon mikes could be damaged.

So I guess the phantom power on my M-Audio MicroTrack for the stereo T-mike is not quite the same. It has a 1/8" stereo plug- each mike is unbalanced. The voltage is much lower and I think it is connected like a bias voltage on each output lead. (I had to make attenuator adaptors for the original MT24/96 which required diodes to keep from shorting out the power supply as a simple voltage divider would do. The volume control was actually a gain control and it did not go all of the way down to silence; set as low as it could go I got horrendous digital distortion recording a band playing at normal bar levels.)

Steve

[Steve Conner]

Provided the dynamic mics are proper balanced ones, and wired up correctly, it shouldn't be a problem. The phantom power is applied in the common mode, so the guts of the mic just float at 48V. I used to own a mixer with a global 48V switch and did it all the time.

If you miswired the mic cable, you could conceivably put 48v across the ribbon of a ribbon mic and launch it into hyperspace. Or maybe some ribbon mics have odd internal wiring that isn't floating.

Recording bands with low-end gear can be touch and go. I've had lots of recordings ruined by distortion. The IRiver H120 does it no problem, handling very high sound levels when used with the little electret capsules. The secret of its success is that the mic input is also the line input, and it has an oddball Philips codec chip with a very wide, seamless gain control. The Rockbox third-party firmware takes control of that and gives you a very useful auto level.

[Steve A.]

Once I made the attenuator adaptor the live recordings with the MT2496 came out pretty good. I made the mistake of leaving the hold switch on while charging which trashed the internal battery in less than 6 months. I was able to use it with an USB external battery pack but it was kinda flaky. Sometimes it would lock up and the memory card would be trashed. I replaced it with the second generation MTII which had a better gain circuit so I didn't need the attenuator anymore. But it was also kinda flaky and you'd never know when a live recording was trashed. I still don't agree with M-Audio's decision to have a gain control rather than a volume control. I think that they wanted to make sure that users got some kind of recording even if the settings were at the minimum.

Getting back to the Tascan US-800, I do have a few amps and other devices with XLR outputs so I need to make sure that they are wired correctly if I will be using them with phantom power. I was thinking of looking at the circuitry to see if I could defeat phantom power on the #5 and #6 XLR inputs.

Steve "Have Dremel, Will Cut Traces" Ahola

[Steve Conner]

Man, you've got it bad. The unit hasn't even arrived and already your Dremel finger is itching.

Phantom power is always applied to the signal lines through 6.8k resistors, so you just need to locate those and remove them.

[Steve A.]

Man, you've got it bad. The unit hasn't even arrived and already your Dremel finger is itching.

Phantom power is always applied to the signal lines through 6.8k resistors, so you just need to locate those and remove them.

Do they have Harbor Freight tool stores in Scotland? They sell a very cheap Dremel copy, usually on sale for under $7. And that is with maybe 2 dozen tips. I've found that with its lower power it is perfect for molesting printed circuit boards (the real Dremel is just too damned powerful, even at lower RPM's). Held lightly it will remove just the coating on the copper so that you can solder to it; hold it down more firmly and it will start removing the copper. It is much easier to hold and maneuver than a real Dremel tool.

Thanks for the tip about the 6.8k resistors!

Steve Ahola

P.S. I've been using the Harbor Freight rotary tool to make minor adjustments in my new dentures between office visits. Same globe-shaped bit that I use on printed circuit boards. The low power is a big plus since it takes off just a little at a time- and just a little makes a big difference in how the dentures fit.

[broken flyer]

Ill have to take a look at that US-800 as well as it sounds like it might be just what i need. Does anybody know of any good music production/garage band/band in a box, type deals available for linux? I recently installed linux mint on my pc and am now running a dual boot setup with windows 7/linux mint 12. I was just blown away by all the amazing free software for linux available for download threw the system itself and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if there is a garage band substitute in there somewhere. Anyone know of such a thing?