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  • #46
    Originally posted by bob p View Post
    Originally posted by Steve A. View Post
    Bob, MP3's today are like the songs we recorded off the radio onto reel-to-reel or cassette tapes when we were growing up... not exactly high fidelity but we could listen to the songs and decide whether to buy them on vinyl.
    Wait a second Steve -- are you saying that open-reel and cassette tape are low fidelity? Or was it the AM radio that you were using as a source?
    All of the above. In 1969 my parents bought me a $69 RCA mono reel-to-reel tape deck with the top speed being 3-3/4 ips. While audiophiles might buy Scotch tape I'd buy Shamrock, with the sales clerk bragging about some customers coming in to buy cases of it. So scratch reel-to-reel from the list of high fidelity, at least in some cases (like mine.) I was talking about kids at home recording the Top 40 off the radio on Saturday mornings...

    As for cassette tapes until Advent came out with their 201 deck in 1971 with Dolby most home cassette decks were very low-fidelity. I recorded hundreds of concerts off the radio with my Advent 201 but with one problem: I used Dolby on all of them to reduce the tape noise.

    So what was the problem? In the age of digital recording and editing it is easy as pie to remove tape hiss without affecting the musical content very much at all: you take a sample of the hiss at the beginning of the tape and digitally subtract it from the entire track. Voila — tape hiss is gone! (One trick... rather than set the plug-in to remove 100% of the tape hiss I would set it a bit lower, finding a happy medium which had a very natural sound to it.)

    On DIME (a legal file sharing site), there are some very high quality live recordings dubbed from cassette tapes assuming that the asimuth was set properly and that any Dolby processing was decoded properly on playback.

    As for recording songs off the radio if they were done with a cheap microphone you can forget about high fidelity. I made my mono r-to-r recordings by tapping the signal from the speaker terminals of a fairly decent AM/FM clock radio so there was an impedance mismatch but no ambient noise picked up by a microphone.

    As for your rant against CDs when they first came out in 1982 there were not a lot of 5-1/4" floppies in people's homes. I personally boycotted CDs until 1989 when some albums I wanted were available *only* on CDs and cassettes. BTW I never bought pre-recorded cassettes because they were total crap — I bought, borrowed or rented LPs and recorded them myself. And the initial crop of CD reissues of old vinyl albums were pretty crappy as they were usually processed by engineers with little or no expertise in the field of music. At least that is what I thought judging by the results...

    IMO mfgs switched from cassettes to CDs because they could be pressed in one fell swoop rather than dubbed at some multiple of real time. The size and shape of the CD reflected the inherent limitations at the time.

    Had the conversion in the recording industry from analog to digital media occurred 20 years later there is a good chance that we would buy albums on USB thumb drives, which are even more convenient than cassette tapes.

    Steve A.
    The Blue Guitar
    www.blueguitar.org
    Some recordings:
    https://soundcloud.com/sssteeve/sets...e-blue-guitar/
    .

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by bob p View Post
      Originally posted by Steve A. View Post
      Perhaps this is no longer relevant in 2017 but there used to be video cards for the PC that would record video digitally as well as sound cards which would record audio digitally.
      I have a box of those cards that I can't use anymore. They only work on NTSC signals and NTSC isn't being broadcast any more. At best, I could use a set-top box to convert HD signals to NTSC signals and record the NTSC, but then I don't have an NTSC TV to play them back on.

      AFAIK there is no equivalent card that can capture video/audio out of an HDMI port. That's prohibited by design.
      So what about the DVI port on a PC... is that prohibited by design, too? As I understand it, HDMI is essentially the same as DVI but with audio added.

      Have you checked with the pirate forums for the people who create and upload video files of TV shows and movies? I was wondering how they create video files from Netflix or HBO shows...

      Steve A.
      The Blue Guitar
      www.blueguitar.org
      Some recordings:
      https://soundcloud.com/sssteeve/sets...e-blue-guitar/
      .

      Comment


      • #48
        DVI is nothing more than an HDMI equivalent port that's got a different shape. That's because the use of HDMI port requires a royalty of about 5-cents per port to be paid to the consortium that invented HDMI. Nvidia was too cheap to pay that 5-cents, so they created DVI as a competing standard. AFAIK you still cant' record it. I'm not familiar with pirate video forums, but those might be the people to ask.
        "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

        "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Steve A. View Post
          ......I just got a Nyne Bass Sport bluetooth speaker*** which weighs over 6 lbs, puts out 15 *real* watts and has an active subwoofer ......

          *** Original retail $150 but now discontinued... Fry's picked up a sh*tload of them and is selling them on promo code specials for $59.99, with free shipping since the order is over $45 ($49?).

          Read reviews of Bass Sport speakers at Amazon:
          https://www.amazon.com/NYNE-Multimed.../dp/B014JFMLS0

          Link to sign up for daily promo codes from Fry's:
          Sign Up for Fry's PromoCode Emails......
          Steve,

          I got mine yesterday, and it's quite impressive for the price. It's no studio monitor, but I didn't expect it would be. It smokes most of the bluetooth speakers I've demoed that cost twice as much. Thanks again for the tip!
          "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

          Comment


          • #50
            Bob, we have this really cool service out here in California called Goggle, er, Google and I used it to search for methods to record streaming video on your PC. (California is usually 5 or 10 years ahead of the rest of the country so one of these days you, too, can use Google! )

            What I found is that there is a program called PlayOn that allows you to watch and optionally record streaming video on your PC. You do need to upgrade to the premium service to record the shows — $7.99/mo or $17.99/yr or $69.99/lifetime (presumably their lifetime not yours, unfortunately )

            https://consumerist.com/2015/11/06/y...ot-allowed-to/

            PlayOn Review 2017 (Pros & Cons) | Watch TV Online

            https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-playon-1847433

            Here are some links for other services:
            eDigitalPlace TV, LiveTvWeb, 247TvStream Review

            Replay Video Capture Review 2017 | Watch TV Online

            Direct PCTV Review 2017 by Real User | 9000+ Channels

            I used Replay Radio to record internet radio broadcasts back in the "naughty aughts" (2000-2009)... BTW Soundblaster cards used to have software to record the sound going to your speakers as WAV or MP3 files along with software to schedule and record one internet radio show at a time.

            Steve A.
            Last edited by Steve A.; 09-14-2017, 09:36 AM.
            The Blue Guitar
            www.blueguitar.org
            Some recordings:
            https://soundcloud.com/sssteeve/sets...e-blue-guitar/
            .

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by The Dude View Post
              Originally posted by Steve A. View Post
              ......I just got a Nyne Bass Sport bluetooth speaker*** which weighs over 6 lbs, puts out 15 *real* watts and has an active subwoofer ......
              *** Original retail $150 but now discontinued... Fry's picked up a sh*tload of them and is selling them on promo code specials for $59.99, with free shipping since the order is over $45 ($49?).
              Steve,

              I got mine yesterday, and it's quite impressive for the price. It's no studio monitor, but I didn't expect it would be. It smokes most of the bluetooth speakers I've demoed that cost twice as much. Thanks again for the tip!
              Glad it worked out for you! I have found the Bass Sport to be perfect for my current task of learning cover songs for a few bands I hope to be joining. Whether that happens or not doesn't really matter - these are songs that are good for me to know and I enjoy soloing on them.

              I've been getting the lyrics and chords from the Ultimate Guitar site and listening to the official You Tube videos, all on my pair of Samsung Tab 4 7.0 tablets. I *can* play the YouTube on my PC running through my $100 Bose Companion 2 speakers but I have to go to my computer to hit PLAY or navigate to the next song on my list.

              If I played the YT videos on my tablet the sound was pretty low which was okay if I was playing without an amp. Now that I have a Bass Sport I can crank those videos up as loud as I want, pause them, replay them, etc., with my electric guitar set at reasonable volumes (I do live in a 4-plex.)

              With two tablets I can have the lyrics and chords displayed on one and the YouTube video (YouTubeo?) playing on the other. (I don't pay for YouTube Red that allows the videos to play in the background while using another app.)

              Here are the details of the cover tune fakebook I have been creating. At the Ultimate Guitar song page I take screen captures of the lyrics and chords in portrait mode and edit them in an old version of Pixlr Express (2.2.3) and upload them to Dropbox in their own folder with the name of the song. I also select the text of the lyrics and copy it to Evernote, creating a document to which I also add the edited screen captures along with a link to the official YouTube video. (My Evernote documents are shared across all of my devices and I can print them out or convert them to PDF files on my PC.)

              I did something like this only on a PC back in 2009 when I was playing in a cover band and it took a lot longer to do each song and the results were not as portable by a long shot. For one thing the Ultimate Guitar site hadn't built up their huge collection of songs so I'd have to scour the web going to sites like Chordie...

              Steve A.
              Last edited by Steve A.; 09-14-2017, 09:32 AM.
              The Blue Guitar
              www.blueguitar.org
              Some recordings:
              https://soundcloud.com/sssteeve/sets...e-blue-guitar/
              .

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Steve A. View Post
                Bob, we have this really cool service out here in California called Goggle, er, Google and I used it to search for methods to record streaming video on your PC. (California is usually 5 or 10 years ahead of the rest of the country so one of these days you, too, can use Google! )

                What I found is that there is a program called PlayOn that allows you to watch and optionally record streaming video on your PC. You do need to upgrade to the premium service to record the shows — $7.99/mo or $17.99/yr or $69.99/lifetime (presumably their lifetime not yours, unfortunately )

                https://consumerist.com/2015/11/06/y...ot-allowed-to/

                PlayOn Review 2017 (Pros & Cons) | Watch TV Online

                https://www.lifewire.com/what-is-playon-1847433

                Here are some links for other services:
                eDigitalPlace TV, LiveTvWeb, 247TvStream Review

                Replay Video Capture Review 2017 | Watch TV Online

                Direct PCTV Review 2017 by Real User | 9000+ Channels

                I used Replay Radio to record internet radio broadcasts back in the "naughty aughts" (2000-2009)... BTW Soundblaster cards used to have software to record the sound going to your speakers as WAV or MP3 files along with software to schedule and record one internet radio show at a time.

                Steve A.
                Thanks for posting those solutions Steve.

                They don't really appeal to me, as I'm a cheapskate who is old enough to remember when you could record a TV show without having to pay somebody a subscription fee to do it. When the people my age die off, the people who sell this kind of service will have a customer base comprised of people who don't know any better. All of their customers will think that having to pay to record a TV show is normal, because they've experienced nothing but pay-to-play services during their entire lifetimes.

                What strikes me as odd is how willing people seem to be to accept complicated solutions to simple problems, especially when those complicated solutions always require a subscription based model which leads to a monthly recurring expense.

                Unfortunately these sorts of solutions are subscription-based services, not physical devices -- property that you can own and use at-will.

                If I want to pay for a subscription based recording service I already have the ability to pay someone (my cable provider) a recurring monthly fee for a DVR service. In that case, the commercial "solutions" that you provided are just alternative solutions to a problem that doesn't exist if I'm willing to buy the DVR service from my cable company. In all likelihood the DVR service, which is integrated with my cable box, is probably a better solution as it doesn't require me to use a PC while I watch TV. (No, I don't have a PC connected to my TV, I don't connect my internet service to my SmartTV/Telescreen and I don't watch TV on my PC.)

                It seems as if these other companies are nothing more than alternative DVR services, and they're geared to work with those other subscription services like Netflix. (I have to admit, I don't even see the point of having a service like this to store streaming content from Netflix, when Netflix can just re-stream the video the next time you want to see it. To me the idea of archiving streaming content that can easily be re-streamed doesn't make sense. Why would anyone pay another $7.99 per month on top of their Netflix subscription fee to have a recorded version of a Netflix show, when the Netflix streaming model allows you to re-stream it on-demand at no extra cost?)

                One of the problems with these services is that they all seem to require Windows. I abandoned Windows when the PC software industry moved to the subscription-based software model because every useful piece of software suddenly required me to pay $80 for an annual software upgrade. Multiply that by 5-6 different commonly used software programs and the new paradigm required submission to a recurring money-grab. That just wasn't acceptable. I didn't see the value in paying $80 per year to update my CD burning software and my accounting software, etc. to the latest versions when the basic functionality of these programs never changes.

                It seems that all of the services that you recommended require Windows. That doesn't surprise me as they're all pay-to-play subscription-based services, and they're right at home on the mother of all pay-to-play operating systems. It's a model that I haven't been embracing.

                I'm not really looking for a PC-based solution. I don't have my TV connected to a PC. What I'm looking for is a device that I can hook up to my TV to record TV, without being required to use a computer, without being required to connect to the internet, without being required to have cable, and without having to establish an ongoing relationship with a third party. I want a device that's platform independent and simple, like a VCR.

                The other problem that I haven't mentioned yet is privacy. Nobody outside of my house needs to know whether I'm recording the news or a baseball game. Privacy goes right down the toilet when you add more and more people to your television watching datastream.


                In the era of HDTV is it possible to just record broadcast HDTV programs, like we used to do with a VCR? Or has "progress" completely taken that away from us, so that if we want to record a TV program we're now required to buy a computer, buy Windows, and subscribe to a recording service?


                I think the FCC really screwed us all over with the HDTV implementation by "overlooking" what would happen to the recording process. The FCC was either too stupid to consider that the switchover was going to kill off our ability to record TV programs, or they were complicit with the industry in forcing a system on us that took away our ability to record what we see on our TV without paying for it. Gee thanks.
                Last edited by bob p; 09-14-2017, 04:06 PM.
                "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

                "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Steve A. View Post
                  California is usually 5 or 10 years ahead of the rest of the country
                  Nah. California is always 3 hours behind the East coast.
                  DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by bob p View Post
                    In the era of HDTV is it possible to just record broadcast HDTV programs, like we used to do with a VCR? Or has "progress" completely taken that away from us, so that if we want to record a TV program we're now required to buy a computer, buy Windows, and subscribe to a recording service?
                    From what I've read, you can record HD on regular DVD's. Of course this will require connecting your tv to computer (unless you have standalone DVD recorder) and I'm not sure how you interface.
                    Originally posted by Enzo
                    I have a sign in my shop that says, "Never think up reasons not to check something."


                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by g1 View Post
                      From what I've read, you can record HD on regular DVD's. Of course this will require connecting your tv to computer (unless you have standalone DVD recorder) and I'm not sure how you interface.
                      You're not wrong, g1. I'm just adding for clarity. Maximum DVD resolution is 720x480. A regular DVD player won't play anything higher resolution. Of course, you can burn any file you want on DVD media a long as it fits, so you could put a high def video file on the disc. It just won't play on a standard DVD player.
                      "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by bob p View Post
                        I think the FCC really screwed us all over with the HDTV implementation by "overlooking" what would happen to the recording process. The FCC was either too stupid to consider that the switchover was going to kill off our ability to record TV programs, or they were complicit with the industry in forcing a system on us that took away our ability to record what we see on our TV without paying for it. Gee thanks.
                        I think that the FCC really screwed us in 1987 when under the direction of President Reagan they dropped the Fairness Doctrine guaranteeing the public access to all sides of controversial issues by holders of FCC public broadcast licenses for radio and TV. Had the Fairness Doctrine (originally created in 1947) still been in effect the rabid right wing originally led by Rush Limbaugh and Fox News would have never been able to seize all 3 branches of our government in their bloodless coup d'etat. Right wing HATE radio has brainwashed countless millions of listeners for the simple reason that most people listen to it when they are by themselves with no one around to question the statements being made. (Only true believers would listen to hate radio in groups and they have already drank the kool-aid.)

                        As far as I know the FCC had nothing to do with the adoption of the HDMI standards (in particular HDCP) by the industry which is the real culprit here. Yes, it is Big Business not the government regulation of industries (as libertarians would have us believe) that is the true enemy of the people.

                        From what I read the FCC switched us from analog to digital TV to free up large batches of the broadcast spectrum for current and future needs.

                        As for your statement regarding "our ability to record what we see on our TV without paying for it" did you not pay for the VCRs and tapes you used in the days before digital TV? I never once suspected you of being a shoplifter or thief but you said it not me...

                        Originally posted by bob p View Post
                        I'm not really looking for a PC-based solution. I don't have my TV connected to a PC. What I'm looking for is a device that I can hook up to my TV to record TV, without being required to use a computer, without being required to connect to the internet, without being required to have cable, and without having to establish an ongoing relationship with a third party. I want a device that's platform independent and simple, like a VCR.
                        I guess I misunderstood your original request: I thought that you wanted to record TV shows as video files which you could watch anywhere later on any device... you just want a DVR without having to pay a monthly fee to your cable provider. Hmmm... back in the good old days when you could record shows on your VCR didn't you have to pay what could amount to a monthly fee for blank tapes? Or did you just re-record over your old tapes?

                        Originally posted by bob p View Post
                        In the era of HDTV is it possible to just record broadcast HDTV programs, like we used to do with a VCR? Or has "progress" completely taken that away from us, so that if we want to record a TV program we're now required to buy a computer, buy Windows, and subscribe to a recording service?
                        You *can* buy a DVR to avoid monthly fees, for as low as $99.99



                        ClearClick HD Capture Box - Capture Video From Gaming Devices & HDMI Sources (No Computer Required)

                        https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01IYJLP0M/

                        In the question and answer section someone posted "a few of the China 2 input 1 output splitters on here do bypass HDCP" in response to some users who were getting HDCP errors. Very interesting...

                        Originally posted by bob p View Post
                        One of the problems with these services is that they all seem to require Windows. I abandoned Windows when the PC software industry moved to the subscription-based software model because every useful piece of software suddenly required me to pay $80 for an annual software upgrade. Multiply that by 5-6 different commonly used software programs and the new paradigm required submission to a recurring money-grab. That just wasn't acceptable. I didn't see the value in paying $80 per year to update my CD burning software and my accounting software, etc. to the latest versions when the basic functionality of these programs never changes.
                        At least until I move up to Linux I've been using a 2009 HP desktop running Windows 7 Home Premium and most of the software I run is at least 10 years old. The only programs that are updated are my browser, my email client and my AV software (all of which are free.) I, too, rejected the subscription-based model, but instead view my PC as being more like an appliance: if it is working with the existing OS and software why mess with it??? Do you regularly update the OS and program code in your microwave or blueray player?

                        There are plenty of DVR programs for Linux, all of them free. Here is one of them:

                        https://www.mythtv.org

                        If I want to pay for a subscription based recording service I already have the ability to pay someone (my cable provider) a recurring monthly fee for a DVR service. In that case, the commercial "solutions" that you provided are just alternative solutions to a problem that doesn't exist if I'm willing to buy the DVR service from my cable company.
                        As I mentioned above I thought that you wanted to make permanent copies of TV broadcasts as you would with a VCR. The DVR from your cable company has limited storage capacity and older shows need to be deleted to record new shows.

                        EDITORIAL So what us it with you and your TV? I gave my old TV away when I got a new one that I have yet to take out of the box. Why haven't I bothered to hook it up? I haven't gotten around to redoing my living room after taking out the huge entertainment center with all of my audio and video gear.

                        Instead of a 60" TV ten feet away I get a much better picture from my 10.1" Android tablet one or two feet away. With the touch screen I have no need for a remote control. This works for me because I live alone and when I have company we don't watch TV.

                        You present only 2 choices for watching video: a TV or a PC. I never really got into watching TV shows or movies on a PC but a tablet works great for me.

                        Steve A.

                        P.S. If anyone is looking for a great 10.1" Android tablet with an incredible 300 ppi pixel density 2560×1600 WQXGA display many sellers on eBay are offering factory refurbished 16GB Nexus 10's for $100. These were built for Google by Samsung with better specs than most of their 10" tablets.

                        There is one big drawback: like many other Nexus devices there is no micro SD slot and it is a real pain copying files one at a time from a PC. I found a great solution: USB Media Explorer which allows you to copy files from a USB thumb drive plugged into the micro USB port with an OTG adaptor.

                        It's not free like most of the Android apps I use — I paid something like $3 or $5 for it but like all apps bought through the Google Play Store it can be used on all of my devices using my Google account. A great copy protection scheme — the APK can be shared freely but it won't work unless you are logged on with a Google acct that is licensed for the app and I certainly won't share my Google password with anyone besides a trusted friend or family member... and they would need to be logged on to my Google acct to actually use the app. (Google does offer free Family accounts which allow you to share certain apps with members of that family; it is up to the developer to decide if an app will be included in that program.)

                        So while I don't buy very many programs for my PC I will spend $1 to $5 for premium Android apps quite often to get a lifetime license for all of my tablets. With the Google Play Store you have 15 minutes to decide whether to keep a premium app or get an instant refund. USB Media Explorer offers a free USB Photo Explorer app which they suggest you try before buying Media Explorer explaining that if the free app doesn't work with your device there is a good chance that the premium app won't work either.



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                        Last edited by Steve A.; 09-14-2017, 10:48 PM.
                        The Blue Guitar
                        www.blueguitar.org
                        Some recordings:
                        https://soundcloud.com/sssteeve/sets...e-blue-guitar/
                        .

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by The Dude View Post
                          You're not wrong, g1. I'm just adding for clarity. Maximum DVD resolution is 720x480. A regular DVD player won't play anything higher resolution. Of course, you can burn any file you want on DVD media a long as it fits, so you could put a high def video file on the disc. It just won't play on a standard DVD player.
                          So will it play on a blueray player? Because of all of the extra features (like ethernet and wifi connectivity and USB ports) I didn't think that people bought anything but blueray players these days...
                          The Blue Guitar
                          www.blueguitar.org
                          Some recordings:
                          https://soundcloud.com/sssteeve/sets...e-blue-guitar/
                          .

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Steve A. View Post
                            So will it play on a blueray player? Because of all of the extra features (like ethernet and wifi connectivity and USB ports) I didn't think that people bought anything but blueray players these days...
                            Here's a link that answers some questions. The poster seems to have experience and know what he's talking about.

                            https://www.videomaker.com/community...blu-ray-player
                            "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Apparently, there are blue ray recorders if you were inclined to try hard enough to get one.

                              https://www.lifewire.com/blu-ray-disc-recorders-1846528
                              "I took a photo of my ohm meter... It didn't help." Enzo 8/20/22

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Warning: Old Curmudgeon Rant

                                thanks for everyone's answers on the recording thing. i have to admit, i'm not a big AV-tech consumer. i'm going to step out on a limb for a minute and out myself as one of the small minority of odd people who doesn't watch the boob tube. Instead of wasting time with TV, I read books. A lot of books. I might catch the TV news a couple of times a week, maybe watch the weather channel for a few minutes in the morning if the weather is changing. i did keep it on in the background while the hurricanes were beating up texas and florida. but i don't watch TV in the morning, in the afternoon or the evening. i'm too busy doing other things.

                                unfortunately, it looks like all of the solutions that have been suggested so far for recording HDTV are complicated devices that require computers, feature some corporation's proprietary interface, and require some measure of jumping through hoops to use them, creating accounts, creating passwords, etc.

                                I don't need another account and another password in my life.

                                why is it that electronic devices today have to be so needlessly complicated? the process of turning on a TV used to be simple -- pull the knob out to turn on the TV, twist it to adjust the volume, and rotate the big knob to change channels.

                                it used to be that my 90-year old grandmother could work a TV. it's a lot more complicated now. my parents needed me to write up notes for them on how to use the 3 remotes to change what the TV was doing. for them the interface was a definite impediment to usability.

                                today's AV systems are a royal clusterfuck of crappy ergonomic design. It amazes me that in the 21st Century nobody can make a TV that has a simple 3 button interface. ON/OFF, volume and channel. or a modern day equivalent of the VCR that will record with the push of one button. is that really too much to ask?

                                it used to be that engineers designing products paid attention to design ergonomics, such that ease of use was a primary concern. unfortunately that science seems to have been totally abandoned and we're left dealing with this:

                                Last edited by bob p; 09-15-2017, 06:43 PM.
                                "Stand back, I'm holding a calculator." - chinrest

                                "I happen to have an original 1955 Stratocaster! The neck and body have been replaced with top quality Warmoth parts, I upgraded the hardware and put in custom, hand wound pickups. It's fabulous. There's nothing like that vintage tone or owning an original." - Chuck H

                                Comment

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