Rail Pickups low output?

[mcsilvio]

sorry to bump but trying to keep everything here.

question, these pickups show 9k on the metre. the guitar fetish guy told me they are rated at 9k. is it possible for them to show this resistance but not have that output? i mean, im thinking they sound quiet but im also thinking, if it reads 9k then the output must be appropriately loud. any ideas?


question 2, my guitar tech guy said to me that having three noise cancelling pickups would not sound good. i said i want a nice clean sound and he said to keep the two single coils for diversity of sound. what are your thoughts. i always wanted to hear three humbuckers. i think he also suggested to have the neck and bridge humbuckers and the middle a single coil. that sounds smart. but i think my pickups ARE noise cancelling.

anyway, still looking at pickups. right now, looking to find a humbucker around 11 k or 14k or something like that.

any other cheap good ones other than guitar fetish? they dont have the cream colour i want.

THANKS guys/girls

[David Schwab]

sorry to bump but trying to keep everything here.

question, these pickups show 9k on the metre. the guitar fetish guy told me they are rated at 9k. is it possible for them to show this resistance but not have that output? i mean, im thinking they sound quiet but im also thinking, if it reads 9k then the output must be appropriately loud. any ideas?

Resistance has nothing to do with output. But a 9K mini humbucker should be plenty loud. A 9K pickup with neo magnets should be nice and bright also.

But just because you get a resistance reading from the pickup doesn't mean it's working correctly. For example, you can remove the magnet from a pickup and still get a reading on a meter, and get no sound at all.

As you mentioned the pickup was damaged, and I think that's the reason for lack of output. Plus, what do you want, high output, or a bright tone? You rarely get both at the same time.

question 2, my guitar tech guy said to me that having three noise cancelling pickups would not sound good. i said i want a nice clean sound and he said to keep the two single coils for diversity of sound. what are your thoughts. i always wanted to hear three humbuckers. i think he also suggested to have the neck and bridge humbuckers and the middle a single coil. that sounds smart. but i think my pickups ARE noise cancelling.

Your tech is an idiot. There are plenty of humcanceling pickups that sound bright like single coils. Even full size humbuckers.

My Tele has three hum canceling single coil size pickups, 2 Lawrence L-250's and a stacked bridge pickup of my own design. It sounds just like a Tele or Strat, and doesn't hum.

Stacks are very bright by nature.

anyway, still looking at pickups. right now, looking to find a humbucker around 11 k or 14k or something like that.

any other cheap good ones other than guitar fetish? they dont have the cream colour i want.

THANKS guys/girls

The only company that makes double cream pickups is DiMarzio. Carvin and Bill Lawrence do as well, but not in standard 12 pole piece designs. A DiMarzio Super Distortion, Super II, or Bill Lawrence L-500 would be a good match in that range.

[mcsilvio]

thanks for the post. i think im gonna just grab a set of dimarzio (at great expense) but the guitar is worth it. through body neck and amazing look. very heavy too the sustain is incredible.

david schwab, you look like a rocker, dude. petrucci style.

any tips on learning guitar? ive been playing for 11 years but not earnestly. any fun songs you like to play? i find my skill level goes down when i go through phases where im only working on my own stuff.

thanks all!
marco.

[David Schwab]

thanks for the post. i think im gonna just grab a set of dimarzio (at great expense) but the guitar is worth it. through body neck and amazing look. very heavy too the sustain is incredible.

I recommend the DiMarzio Virtual Vintage Solo Pro stacked pickups. They sound like single coils and are loud! I paired one up at the neck (it's a bridge pickup) with a Duncan Invader at the bridge for a guy and it sounded great.

david schwab, you look like a rocker, dude. petrucci style.

any tips on learning guitar? ive been playing for 11 years but not earnestly. any fun songs you like to play? i find my skill level goes down when i go through phases where im only working on my own stuff.

Well I consider myself a bassist first, but I've been playing guitar longer. I've only been in two bands as a guitarist though, but I play all the guitar parts on my recordings. I hardly ever play other people's stuff anymore, and I don't have the patience to sit and learn it unless I have to play it for a gig, but I like to play old prog rock stuff like Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Yes, Etc.

I try to play a little every day, but I can go for weeks without picking up my bass, and then I have to get past my hands getting tired too quickly. I think lately I've been playing guitar more often.

I just sit and make fast things up and then try to play them at full speed. I also like making up some chord changes and improvising over them.

When I come up with something that's hard to play I focus on that until I can get it smoother.

[bajaman]

not wishing to derail the thread BUT I recently purchased a set of the "Power Rock" Neovin pickups.
Low noise yes BUT not a lot of sparkle - they sound more like a traditional humbucker ( because they are side by side humbucker coils) than a single coil pickup though to my ears AND very smooooth sounding - no ice pick sound here like a lot of cheaper ceramics. i think small neos have a great future in guitar pickup construction, but they are not for everybody though.
I must admit being a little disappointed - I was expecting a little more twang - perhaps I should have ordered the vintage wound set - hmmm!
Anyway, I suspected that the higher inductance caused by series connecting the two rail coils was responsible for the muted top end response, so it occured to me - why not connect the coils in parallel instead - this quarters the total inductance (also lowers output level slightly) and raises the top end resonant peak to twice its original frequency thus extending the top end response at the small expense of diminished total output level (hell - I can always turn my amplifier up - lol).
The result for me was a major improvement in tonal response - I fitted a push pull switched 500k log volume pot to allow me to select between series and parallel on the bridge pickup only, and I am very happy with them now - completely different sounding pickups to how they were originally connected.

As David has already observed - the "pole pieces" are actually non magnetic (possibly aluminium?)and they appear to be threaded or riveted into a flat brass plate that is sandwiched between the two rails and rests on top of the coil bobbins.
a small earthing wire is soldered from this brass plate to a single turn of copper foil wrapped arround both coils and attached to the separate shield of the 4 way conductor cable. GFS recommend connecting this shield to ground.
I am wondering if this plate and "pole piece" is really that necessary to the operation or sound of the pickup. If it was removed one would have to find another way of grounding the rails though!
cheers
Steve

[David Schwab]

not wishing to derail the thread

This thread is over a year old, and dead, so why not?

BUT I recently purchased a set of the "Power Rock" Neovin pickups.
Low noise yes BUT not a lot of sparkle - they sound more like a traditional humbucker

The phrase "power rock" sounds like a darker humbucker tone to me, not a Strat.

...why not connect the coils in parallel instead...

That would do it.

I am wondering if this plate and "pole piece" is really that necessary to the operation or sound of the pickup. If it was removed one would have to find another way of grounding the rails though!

The pickup will likely be brighter without the aluminum pole piece facade. Usually on rail pickups you can get to the rails and magnets under the pickup. If that's the case, stick come conductive copper tape on it and ground it.

[bajaman]

Hi David
Further to my last post - I decided to remove the brass plate and phony polepieces that I think are plated brass not aluminium - they are press fitted into smaller diameter holes in the brass plate.
I also decided to remove the shorted turn copper strap around the two coils which was connected to the shield wire and the fake pole piece plate assembly.
GFS recommend that these pickups be installed as close to the strings as possible (then they go and stick a lump of plated brass with fake pole pieces on it to prevent you from actually doing this - lol).
With the "damping components" removed (i hate brass anywhere near my pickups!), including the single shorted copper turn, the pickups sounded very different and much better to my ears - in fact i had to series connect the coils once again to lower the top end brightness that was now there in spades. The pickup can now be moved a lot closer to the strings and is "alive" sounding not dead like it was before the removal of the unnecessary shit on it.
In conclusion - i think these are great sounding pickups now - the harmonic content is rich and the top end is smoooth as.
A lot of folks mistakenly believe pickups with neo magnets to be harsh sounding - perhaps because they compare them to ceramic magnets which can be very harsh in my experience.
However i think there is a great future for neo in guitar pickups not standard sized like alnico but very thin types that can be mounted well away from the guitar strings to avoid pulling the note out of pitch etc.
Oh - i just about forgot to mention that i soldered the loose shield wire directly to the rail on the underside of each pickup (after scratching the surface of the rail first and then tinning it).
I would encourage others to try this if they have neovins.
cheers
bajaman

[David Schwab]

That sounds like a very goofy design they did there. I really don't see the point of the fake poles.

Neo magnets are actually very warm sounding, but not soft in the top end like alnico. You have to watch that you don't over wind neo pickups or they get muddy quickly. The size of the magnet is important. Ceramics are not harsh, but it depends on how you use them. If you wind an edgy sounding alnico pickup, and stick in a ceramic, it will be harsh. All the very warm sounding Bartolini pickups use ceramic magnets.

I'm just starting to make some neo guitar pickups, but I've been using them in bass pickups since '07.