Les Paul Jimmy Page wiring with 42 sounds

[scottyf73]

jpage wiring

Howdy,
i have struck onto this thread after trying to wire up the jimmy page style wiring on my black 82 LP Custom clone by greco.

i too found the problem of the one mute position with the diagram on the seym dunc web site. i think it was when the serial p/p (Rhythm - tone) was engaged and the selector sw was in the bridge or middle position.

anyhow, i started over and have used the schecter superrock thing as drawn by steve A. thanks for the available use of such.

however i cant get the coil cut on the rhythm tone and in fact as soon as i engage the p/p the rhythm humbucker becomes mute. i have tried both wiring setups for this p/p pot but neither seem to work. it may well be my wiring so i will go back & re-look at it now to confirm i have wired it correctly as per the diagram.

has anybody else struck this problem with super-rock harness?

also, i have used 2 x 500k vol's & 2 x 250k tones.
would this present any problems with the performance of the humbuckers.

so the other option which i will attempt is the 22 sounds version as listed here. cheers & thanks for this thread. it is very useful & thanks for sharing the knowledge. will let you know how i go...

[13eastie]

Pickup Suggestion?

I'm very tempted to implement this mod on my 1980 LP Custom.

Which commercially available pickups will give me the closest (reasonably priced) approximation to Jimmy's tone?

Thanks for any answers...

[telemonster]

does this fit in the 'because i can' category?

i mean... 22 sounds, ffs!

and how many will we use? 5 or so...?

but more guitars, i say!

[scottyf73]

addendum

OK I sorted out the problem with the coil cut on the lead p/up. easy fix really. just made the p/p pot do a simple coil cut - grounding out two h/b serial connecting wires...

also, for the fella about the jimmy page sound. .. not sure on specific p/ups but i imagine the les pauls he used were probably just stock gibson p/ups of the late 50's / early 60's. maybe a zeppelin fanatic would be able to confirm this??? there probably werent many if any aftermarket p/up available at that time. i wonder if he had some hotter over wound versions made from gibson though.

i do reckon he used the out of phase sounds a bit. again i am sure a zeppelin nut would know better than my guesses tho...

i have installed this 22 mod thing with Lace Hemi-bucker p/ups.

overall the sounds are very stock rock really but the out-of-phase is cool and the real useful sounds & tones come from varying the volume controls when obviously in the middle position of the selector swiitch. so keeping the rhythm at 10 and turning the lead vol down to 2 or 3 and maybe even using the coil cut. i have found that these sounds can emulate a sound similar to knopflers brothers in arms for example.

keep rockin'

[13eastie]

also, for the fella about the jimmy page sound. .. not sure on specific p/ups but i imagine the les pauls he used were probably just stock gibson p/ups of the late 50's / early 60's. maybe a zeppelin fanatic would be able to confirm this??? there probably werent many if any aftermarket p/up available at that time. i wonder if he had some hotter over wound versions made from gibson though.

I'm not sure whether it was my post you were responding to here, but pickup selection would seem to me to be a pretty crucial part of the mod if you are using it to reproduce JP's sound.

To this end, I'm planning to go with Burstbuckers - I'm yet to compare them to the stock pickups on my Custom, but the literature and some of the reviews I've uncovered would seem to suggest these are a pretty good approximation of the '59 stock sound.

Can anyone comment on this?

[telemoxy]

I'm not sure whether it was my post you were responding to here, but pickup selection would seem to me to be a pretty crucial part of the mod if you are using it to reproduce JP's sound.

To this end, I'm planning to go with Burstbuckers - I'm yet to compare them to the stock pickups on my Custom, but the literature and some of the reviews I've uncovered would seem to suggest these are a pretty good approximation of the '59 stock sound.

Can anyone comment on this?

Aren't the '57 Classics the pickups with a 50s sound? I thought the Burstbuckers were hotter.

[Marty]

Did anyone else try this wiring?

I just finished. This was my first stab at modifying the electronics in a guitar. I had to learn a few things before I started the mod. Even so, there is a lot of fine wiring going on and I got a bit discombobulated in the process. Right now the mod works but I'm trying to track down a humming problem. I think that if I had to do it over again, I would try the standard mod first. The diagrams available for it are a lot clearer for the beginner tinkerer. Good luck.

[David Schwab]

Aren't the '57 Classics the pickups with a 50s sound? I thought the Burstbuckers were hotter.

They are both PAF copies. The Burstbuckers are more random wound to simulate hand winding, and the '57 Classics are machine wound.

Burstbucker

BurstBucker pickups from Gibson Gear now give guitarists a choice of three replica sounds from Gibson's original "Patent Applied For" pickups - the pickups that give the '59 Les Paul Standard its legendary sound. The three BurstBuckers - all with unpolished magnets and non-potted coils, like the originals - represent the variations found among vintage Gibson humbuckers.

The initial demand for Patent Applied For replica pickups came from Japanese collectors, and the BurstBucker was offered exclusively in Japan beginning in 1996. By 1999 word has spread of the unique replica tones produced by BurstBuckers. Gibson USA put the first BurstBuckers on a production model with the Gary Moore Signature Les Paul in the Summer of 2000, and Gibson's Custom division then equipped the Class 5 Les Paul, Custom Authentic '68 Les Paul Custom and Custom Authentic '58 Les Paul Standard models with BurstBuckers.

The variations in pickup output and tone came from inconsistencies in winding the bobbins, a result of the lack of automatic shutoffs on Gibson's winding machines in the late 1950s. Seth Lover, who invented the humbucker, always said they wound the bobbins "until they were full," and original examples suggest that employees stopped the winding machines after the counter reached approximately 5000 turns. When the two coils in a pickup have a different number of turns, that variation puts a little "edge" or "bite" on the classic humbucker sound. That's the sound BurstBuckers replicate. (The "creamy" sound that Gibson's '57 Classics replicate comes from equal coil windings.) Gibson then carries the replication process two steps farther, with unpolished Alnico II magnets and no wax-potting of the coils, just like the originals.

The Burstbucker 1 is underwound, and the Burstbucker 3 is overwound. The '57 Classic Plus is overwound.

The Burstbucker Pro has an Alnico V magnet and is wax potted, while the others are Alnico II and not wax potted.

The question is who came up with the stupid name "Burstbucker"? That makes it sound like a hot pickup.

[MusicMan2U]

Newb here... hello everyone.

The 59' Les Paul Standard which Page used was equipped with the standard PAF Humbucker on the neck, but with the newly designed "Burstbucker" (4 conductor) in the Bridge position for coil tapping.
And yes, I am a big Zep fan I suppose since I am about to do the same mod to my own Epi LP.

As for current PUPs, I chose the Seymour-Duncan hod-rodded pickup set since Gibson has chosen not to sell that same JP Burstbucker to anyone who doesn't actually already own that Limited edition guitar! <fooey on them> The SDs are well used for just this purpose as I understand it, so Gibson just shot themselves in the foot as far as I'm concerned.

Good luck to you, hope this helped.

[David Schwab]

You can easily rewire a Burstbucker for 4 wire operation. But why bother? The Duncans are better pickups anyway.

[MusicMan2U]

You can easily rewire a Burstbucker for 4 wire operation. But why bother? The Duncans are better pickups anyway.

Hello David.

I have heard the same thing about being able to re-wire the burstbuckers before, but never heard how. Do you know how? Or maybe have a link or two to where it's shown?
That would be appreciated.

I currently have the "Alnico Classic" Humbuckers installed on my Epi LP. These are supposed to approximate the Gibson 498T (bridge) and 490R (neck).
According to Gibson's site: All factory installed pickups come as 2 conductor, and only by purchasing their factory replacements, can one acquire the 4 conductor ones, excluding the burstbuckers.

Perhaps you could tell me: Is this so? And is there a way to re-wire these factory installed Alnico Classics to 4 conductor?

Thanks.

[David Schwab]

Perhaps you could tell me: Is this so? And is there a way to re-wire these factory installed Alnico Classics to 4 conductor?

I guess it would make sense that they don't put 4/C wiring in the factory guitars, because it's not needed. Saves them on the cost of the wire.

It's not hard to do, but you have to be careful not to break anything.

You just remove the baseplate by unscrewing the four brass screws. Made note of which way the magnet is in, incase it comes loose.

Then you just follow what ever wiring chart you want. If you want the Gibson color code, follow this:

http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/Elec.../i-gibson.html

The two wires that are soldered together are disconnected and connect to the green and white wires. The coil that went to the hot becomes the red/white coil, and the other coil is the black/green coil.

The bare wire/shield of the 4 conductor cable connects to the baseplate.

Then you put it back together.

You just need to take you time and be careful. It's tricky getting the wires to fit in there.

[MusicMan2U]

RE: Re-Wiring a factory humbucker

Well that's a load of good information David... thank you.
My aim is to adapt the "Jimmy Page Set-up", which of course will require switching out the B-PuP. And since I want to save money where I can, I just figured I could retain the N-PuP and tap it, while switching to a SD on the bridge. It seems that Page did the same thing except he used a "Burstbucker" instead. My set-up will have 4 push-pull pots rather than just the 2 he used.
Really enjoyed the links you posted, and noted you are a luthier; good to know.

Thanks for the tips. I'll let you know how it progresses.

[MusicMan2U]

Mission Accomplished



Well Folks, there it is! I accomplished it in just two days, and it only took that long because I dawdled!

[starekase502123]

pickup wires

ok call me stupid but i wanna double check on the pickup labeling am i right that
adjust pol
1 coil start 5 coil start
2 coil finsish 6 coil finish
slug poles
4 coil start 8 coil start
3 coil finish 7 coil finish

so with seymour duncan pickups
bridge neck
1 green 8green
2 red 7 red
3 white 6 white
4black 5 black