Les Paul Jimmy Page wiring with 42 sounds

[giangui]

Here are my last upgrades to the Les Paul Jimmy Page design. Take notice that I have introduced several improvements and that there are now two different versions of this guitar with differing use of the volume and tone controls in series mode.

Well, I have recently completed and tried on stage my les paul twentydual master (PU are SD alnico II on neck and SD pearly gates on bridge) and I can only say

BORSANOVA YOU ARE A GENIUS!
Borsanova sei un genio

Giangui

[rosstiger]

22 master or mix?

hi,
i have the standard jimmy page wiring installed in my les paul, but are tempted to try the 22 wiring. didnīt quite get the difference between the master and the mix version (as well as the 1&1/2 humbucker) - could somebody pls. explain? did somebody else rewire his guitar to one of the two "22 wirings"?
thanks, ross

[Stealth]

All I can say is god forbid someone makes a variant of this for a twin-pickup, dual-coil bass. This could be a killer tone switcher.

[giangui]

hi,
i have the standard jimmy page wiring installed in my les paul, but are tempted to try the 22 wiring. didnīt quite get the difference between the master and the mix version (as well as the 1&1/2 humbucker) - could somebody pls. explain? did somebody else rewire his guitar to one of the two "22 wirings"?
thanks, ross

Hi Ross,
I think the difference is that with the master version (as I have) during serial you have just one volume (the bridge) working for both PU. It's like a big PU. With the mix version each volume pot works properly.
By saying the 1&1/2 humbucker you mean the dual sound, do you? If yes I can say that is a sound in the middle between single coil and humbucker. For example on overdrived sound it is more powerful and rich in harmonics than a single coil but thinner and less aggressive than humbucker. I really like that mode.

[tedmich]

strictly my opinion here but guitar controls are largely useless to me; a responsive tube amp is where the sound variations lie. I remember seeing an early 70"s guitar with tiny dual 7 band eq slider pots...silly. And 44 sounds? good luck finding any you want when you want it... how about this setup?

>150 combinations w/ 2 HBs....
>1000 with 3/HBs


Guitar Max Pickup Control System


silly...

[rosstiger]

thanks for the quick reply, giangui! so this is what borsanova meant with 1&1/2 - ok, i know parallel mode (i have it installed in another guitar).
with the master mode you have, the second volume has no function at all, or does it influence the mix between the 2 pickups?
ross

[giangui]

strictly my opinion here but guitar controls are largely useless to me; a responsive tube amp is where the sound variations lie. I remember seeing an early 70"s guitar with tiny dual 7 band eq slider pots...silly. And 44 sounds? good luck finding any you want when you want it... how about this setup?

>150 combinations w/ 2 HBs....
>1000 with 3/HBs


Guitar Max Pickup Control System


silly...

Interesting like other systems like that
Press Releases - Seymour Duncan Serves Up A Triple Shot! - Seymour Duncan/Basslines

I agree...what you really need are just a good guitar and a good amp...but you know...it's just a way for having fun!

[David Schwab]

All I can say is god forbid someone makes a variant of this for a twin-pickup, dual-coil bass. This could be a killer tone switcher.

Been there... it's not all that useful. The difference in tone from one coil to another in a humbucker is slight, and then out of phase tones are not very useful for bass.

At one point I had three pickups with about nine switches and six knobs on my Rick 4001. Most of the tones weren't all that interesting, and some where redundant. But there was a hand full of good ones.

These days I keep it simple, but I do find I use series parallel switches for each pickup though.

Now on guitar, out-of-phase sounds can be very useful since loosing the low end isn't a bad thing. Brain May is a good example.

[giangui]

thanks for the quick reply, giangui! so this is what borsanova meant with 1&1/2 - ok, i know parallel mode (i have it installed in another guitar).
with the master mode you have, the second volume has no function at all, or does it influence the mix between the 2 pickups?
ross

the second (neck) volume has no function at all only when splitted to serial mod of course while in this case (splitted to serial) the second (neck) tone works as a treble booster (from 10 to 0 at 0 you get the clearest sound)

Giangui

[mrmorrison]

Interesting like other systems like that
Press Releases - Seymour Duncan Serves Up A Triple Shot! - Seymour Duncan/Basslines

I agree...what you really need are just a good guitar and a good amp...but you know...it's just a way for having fun!

Whoa. I must have

[jeguri]

mistake in the diagram?

I built the Twenty Dual Master version and I cannot hear any difference on the bridge dual and single coil modes. I suspect that it never gets to single coil, as I do not hear a volume drop.
My wirings seem to be ok, so I checked the diagram. There seems to be a problem. For the neck to be in single coil, the wires 2 and 3 should both be routed to ground, right? But I cannot see how the wire 3 would ever get that. When the BT is pulled it gets routed to NT but then when it is pulled it simply floats?
Could someone verify this? I have already an idea how to fix this, but it is a pain to modify now that everything is in place.

thx, o-p

[bertbacharat]

Could someone explain the capacitors in this diagram? Why are there four?

Are the two on the volume treble bleeds?

Also is the following accurate?:

ok call me stupid but i wanna double check on the pickup labeling am i right that
adjust pol
1 coil start 5 coil start
2 coil finsish 6 coil finish
slug poles
4 coil start 8 coil start
3 coil finish 7 coil finish

so with seymour duncan pickups
bridge neck
1 green 8green
2 red 7 red
3 white 6 white
4black 5 black

[Borsanova]

I built the Twenty Dual Master version and I cannot hear any difference on the bridge dual and single coil modes. I suspect that it never gets to single coil, as I do not hear a volume drop.
My wirings seem to be ok, so I checked the diagram. There seems to be a problem. For the neck to be in single coil, the wires 2 and 3 should both be routed to ground, right? But I cannot see how the wire 3 would ever get that. When the BT is pulled it gets routed to NT but then when it is pulled it simply floats?
Could someone verify this? I have already an idea how to fix this, but it is a pain to modify now that everything is in place.

thx, o-p

You talk about the neck pu, but then name the wires 2 and 3 which refer to the bridge pickup. So I guess you intended talking about the bridge pickup. For the bridge pickup being in single coil mode only wire 2 must be connected to the ground. Wire 3 connects to the second coil which is shunted (both sides hanging from hot).
Use your neck tone switch to get the difference between the single coil and the dual sound. If there isn't any, there must be a problem with your wiring. To sort it out first check the hum (move the guitar close to a lamp ora computer). If there isn't any, you're in dual mode, if there is some, you're in single coil mode. That can help to find the problem.

I hope you're still having fun with your Twenty Dual. All the best!

[Borsanova]

the second (neck) volume has no function at all only when splitted to serial mod of course while in this case (splitted to serial) the second (neck) tone works as a treble booster (from 10 to 0 at 0 you get the clearest sound)

BORSANOVA YOU ARE A GENIUS!
Borsanova sei un genio

Giangui

You got it Giangui. Thank you.

People should distinguish between dual sound (only on the bridge pickup alone) and broadbucker or 1 1/2 sound (with both pickups in series and the treble booster on the neck tone turned to zero). The Twenty Dual master has both of them.

[Ralph_C]

Just for fun what you do with additional switches?

Hi there,

I was wondering what your thoughts are about this new pickup ring from Seymour Duncan in relation to this thread regarding the enhanced Jimmy Page wiring approach.

I'd Love to use the RS Vintage Electronics vol & tone pots they developed with CTS and I'm not sure if they offer a push pull pot that has the tapper control.

I then saw this and thought I might be able to get a lot of the options of of tow of these rings.

Triple Shot - Triple Shot Switching Mounting Ring - Seymour Duncan/Basslines

But something is telling me that in addition to these two switches that your wiring might not be possible.

So here are my questions:

1) Could this new 22 option wiring approach be accomplished with these rings without any push pull pots?

2) If not what at a minimum would be needed in addition?

3) If Yes, (just for fun) what else would you do with any additional Push Pull pots?

Thanks,

Ralph C

Great Thread!