trem blocks and weight

[daz]

there is a lot of discussion about zinc vs steel trem blocks in a strat. But what about weight? What does weight do to the tone given 2 blocks of the same material, in this case zinc. Will the heavier one have advantages or will the lighter one? Or does each have thier particular advantages. Or in short, what does a heavier block contribute to the good or bad?

[Faux Hog]

As far as the contribution to the tone being good or bad...I have found that for every modification you can make you are compromising some other aspect of the instruments performance. That said; I have two strats that are of swamp ash. Both have maple necks and similar set ups and pickups. One body came in around 3.5 lbs (or 1 and 1/4 chicken) and the other was over 6 lbs. The heavier one has a sharper attack and better sustain but the lighter one just plain sounds better (to me) and has a more even, less bass heavy tone, more organic maybe.
Some things being more eqaul then others, I would look at what aspect I was trying to improve and ask myself if a heavy block could do the trick. That is, if weight for the sake of weight is going to increase attack, sustain and bass frequency as I assume it would.
I would also assume, since we are talking about added weight to the lever end of a fulcrum added mass could cause it to correct itself quicker and maybe more accurately. But I'm assuming here. I'm not much of a whammy banger.
As far as a dis-advatage. It's heavier and bigger i.e. deeper in the pocket. so I'm sure some PHD could talk you out of adding non-speaking length to the string and I supose it might allow less travel in the trem if it was longer or deeper. I can do faster and harder but I can't do longer or deeper (Yikes). Mostly- Have you seen what they are charging for these things!!! 80 bucks in some cases. This is a sickness we have.

[David Schwab]

The thing a heavier block might help is the fact that you loose some tone from having the trem in the first place. Some of the energy from the strings is going into the recoil of the trem, and into its springs (which you can hear on a Strat) and that's absorbing the energy.

So the heavier block might help over come that.

As Faux Hog pointed out, it's all in combination with the rest of the guitar. A lighter body will react differently than a heavier body.

Some examples; I have a pretty heavy 5 string bass with a cherry body with maple top, and a 7 piece maple and purpleheart neck. I had a heavy zinc Gotoh bridge on the bass, and Gotoh tuners.

Recently I replaced the hardware with Hipshop Ultralites and an aluminum bridge. The tone is very different, and I like it a lot better. It has opened up... the low end is clearer with less mud. it has more of an acoustic quality now.

Now if the were a basswood body, maybe it would be to much, and that might stand having a heavy bridge.

It's even true of pickups. I had a customer with a pretty heavy Jackson bolt on with a Floyd. The guitar had a Duncan Jazz at the neck and a JB at the bridge. The Jazz sounded really bland on that guitar. So he changed it for a DiMarzio Evo neck, and that worked better on that guitar.

I put the Jazz on a basswood body FirstAct, and it sounded so much better than on the Jackson. But then it was also a bit boomy.

Even different strings work better on some instruments than others.

So you have to ask yourself what is it about the tone of the zinc block that you might not like; Do you want it brighter? Then maybe a steel block would help. A brass block might warm up the tone.

You wont know unless you try it.

[Faux Hog]

A recent thread mentioned the GFS stuff. They Have cheap blocks ($20). Try it, if you don't like it, E bay it away. Then you can decide if a $80 callaham block is worth it.

[David Schwab]

A recent thread mentioned the GFS stuff. They Have cheap blocks ($20). Try it, if you don't like it, E bay it away. Then you can decide if a $80 callaham block is worth it.

+1

$80 is a bit much for a trem block IMO.

Here's more alternatives... a new Wilkinson steel block for $19.95

Or a real Fender steel block for $39.79 (they also have a Fender TITANIUM block for $224.79! They say it's 40% lighter than steel... why not use aluminum then?)

It might be more about the density than the weight. Strats originally had steel blocks.

A piece of steel with some holes is not worth $80.

[Faux Hog]

Yeah, $80 was a bit of an exageration. I think the entire callaham trem was around that. I just got one of the wilkinson units. No problems good price.

[spud1950]

I just got one of the wilkinson units. No problems good price.

As far as bridges go,I think the Wilkinson products are great quality for little money. I'm using one his vintage style Strat trems. Full size steel block.The pop in arm system is just great.After years of use,no arm slop at all like you get with the threaded type. The bridge is really well made and great looking.Only $37 and just as good,if not in some cases,better then other trems costing more then twice that price.Just for the record, Callaham vintage Strat bridge, complete, is $127.50, the block by itself is $60. Beautifully made products, but I do have to wonder as to what greater degree of improvement they offer,if any,at so much a greater cost, over something like a Wilkinson.

[martin manning]

Here's my take on what is going on:

If the trem is not floating, being blocked or having so much tension on the springs that the bridge plate is pulled down against the body, then there is probably little effect from changing the mass of the block.

If it is floating, then it is part of a spring-mass system where its motion is similar to a pendulum that is held centered by two springs exerting equal and opposite forces. The springs are of course the trem springs and the guitar strings, and the block rotates about the bridge plate's pivot point. There is damping, too, in the form of pivot friction.

If the undesirable effect is loss of sustain through the dissipation of string energy, then the situation to avoid is where the resonant frequency of the trem system is within the range of the notes played. The large amplitude resulting from a resonance would dissipate the string energy quickly through damping losses.

This can be avoided by making the natural frequency of the system either higher or lower than the range of notes played. The natural frequency of a simple spring mass system varies like the square root of (k/m), where k is the spring constant and m is the mass. A larger mass (heavier block) will lower the natural frequency, and a lighter one will do the opposite. Changing string gauges plays as well, since that will alter the spring constant. Heavier strings and the correspondingly higher tension required will increase the effective spring constant and raise the natural frequency of the system. It would seem then that a good result could be obtained from a light or heavy block.

Another consideration is that the string energy will be transferred into the trem springs via the block. This will become very complicated because the springs will have their own natural frequency and actually form a secondary spring-mass system. String energy transferred into the springs is probably lost, and I would think a heavier block is more likely to impede the energy transfer.

MPM

[daz]

Well guys, i was just asking about this heavy zinc block because i have already tried a callaham and ESP steel blocks and i don't like steel. thats why i was asking about this heavier zin block to replace my current lighter zinc. And i say zinc because i assume they are, but AFAIK they could be aluminum or something. In any case they are not magnetic so they aren't steel.

anyways, fast forward to today and i already tried it. what i found was the heavier zinc block was surprisingly big on low end. it added a ton. But it also made the high end sound less rounded and just not as good....hard to explain exactly, but i didn't like it. So back in with the lighter zinc. If the 4 blocks i tried in it thats the one that sounds best to me. Both steels were just too bright and the start sounded tinny. It's not an overly bright strat either. I find steel too bright in all but one strat i tried it in.

[spud1950]

And i say zinc because i assume they are, but AFAIK they could be aluminum or something. In any case they are not magnetic so they aren't steel.

The blocks commonly referred to as zinc are actually an alloy of zinc,tin and copper, the zinc being the major component of the alloy. That's most likely what you have.An aluminum block being standard on any production guitar would be very rare.The only ones I've ever heard of were made by individuals as an experiment to see what they would sound like. Beside the physical weight of a block,you also have to consider the resonant qualities of different metals,which also have different effects on the tone.

[daz]

I read that charvel used aluminum and allan holdsworth liked it so he had his sig model ibanez (i think it was ibanez) made with an aluminum block. Also i read that some 80's strats had aluminum, and that large block i have is from a 80's squire i believe. So it's been used in the past to a small degree anyways.