Why is it guitar builders won't pay a living wage?

[shane1b4u]

Gotta do what you love...

16 years ago, I worked at a small mom and pops shop where we mostly made parts for Gibsons, ABR's, Stop Bars, and those little pearl Gibson headstock logo's and the like... and it only paid $7 an hour, but I really loved working there! The time came when I just couldn't stay there as we HAD to have more money with 1 kid and another on the way... I ended up learning a trade somewhere else, Tool and Die making to be exact.. sure I made ALOT more money, then awhile after the 3rd kid we moved out of the big city far away to one with only 3500 people in it, and my tool and die knowledge didn't mean crap there, so I was back to $8 dollar an hour jobs, that I hated...had a heart attack 2 years ago and am still off work, the kids will be moving out in the next few years, and I think I'm gonna go back to that mom and pops shop, where I was allowed to think on my feet and have an opinion, and work there for min wage if I have to... that was what I really loved, and the stuff I learned along the way would really help them alot... and I would love it!
Just find what YOU LOVE to do...Pay DOES matter, but HAPPINES is WAY more valuable!

[voodoochild]

I will say this in defense of a degree from any accredited school. It does help you get jobs, usually higher paying than someone without one. Speaking from experience my RV degree or certificate (whatever you want to call it) made it easier for me to get work. I was able to set up as a warranty center for several companies and my credentials gave customers more confidence in my work. Of course I had to back it all up will real quality work which I did. I think as Americans we take a degree for granted and expect a handout for it. If you use your degree as a tool and have a go get it attitude it will work for you. After all we have to pay for our degrees unlike some countries such as India who will educate you for free if you take it. However in India you can have a Masters degree or better and drive a taxi with no hopes of getting anything more from the degree. Is that what we want here? I don't think so. It seems to be heading in that direction too. Having to make sacrifices for an education is why an education gets you places here in the US.

[EffectsGuru]

I agree... it's a good school, there is room for improvments though... alot of the equipment was old and needed to be replaced, or was not working in 2006 and there wan't enough clamps for everyonethings like that... perhaps they have gotten some new equipment by now. But as overall education goes I would say pretty good, however it's hard to teach someone to build acoustic and electirc guitars in 6 months, but if your going to do it... bringing some of the best in the country to that school is the way to do it. SO that being said... I would bet only 1/3 of the people who leave there could build a guitar without help from start to finish in their own garage, and in reality, thats not bad... the other 2/3's can do it with just a little bit of assistance, SO thats pretty good in such short amount of time.

[EffectsGuru]

I agree... it's a good school, there is room for improvments though... alot of the equipment was old and needed to be replaced, or was not working in 2006 and there wan't enough clamps for everyone ... perhaps they have gotten some new equipment by now. But as overall education goes I would say pretty good, however it's hard to teach someone to build acoustic and electric guitars in 6 months, but if your going to do it... bringing some of the best in the country to that school is the way to do it. SO that being said... I would bet only 1/3 of the people who leave there could build a guitar without help from start to finish in their own garage, and in reality, thats not bad... the other 2/3's can do it with just a little bit of assistance, SO thats pretty good in such short amount of time.

[EffectsGuru]

Yeah you definitely have a good point, it absolutely IS a foot in the door.

[Sweetfinger]

[quote=spud1950;100350]

There is no money in this business! There is no sound financial reason to put together a small business building musical instruments in the US. Every single one of us, even the top name builders, work incredibly long hours and struggle month-to-month to pay the rent. /QUOTE]

I'm not in this business in any way,but it's not hard to figure that those who are and actually make a decent living solely from their guitar business must be a very tiny percentage.Here's some links that a sobering reality check.

Guitar Repairs
Guitar repairs - Google Search

The REALLY sobering reality check: I'm very happy that my shop pops up in the first 10 entries on the repair search, a happiness that does not quite offset the incredibly long hours, no pay, and "joy" of owning your own business. Paperwork. Yay. Anybody wanna buy a repair shop?

[guitaraddict]

Just my own take on it. Went to school to do what i loved and found out it was a great hobby but hated it as a living even though the pay was better than good. At 29 became a garbageman for 13 years. Loved that job just got a little to rough at 42. It stinks anyone cant make a 'living' wage. I feel for you. but 60-75 hours a week making money will look easy when the family comes along, because you work at least 40 for pay and more for your wife and kids and it is the biggest pain and greatest joy you will ever know and you will be so tired you think you cant go on. But you will. So my take on it? Glad you vented here rather than doing something crazy with your frustration. It will be a journey as life is that. Your dreams will change and some will be achieved. By reading your post You seem like a good guy having a hard time with the speed bumps on the path you have chosen. Hang in there, dude. Best of luck to you.

[madialex]

I think everyone that goes to college, trade school or whatever goes through this, I know I did. You go to School with the idea that this is going to take me to better places than the local burger joint, then you graduate and find out it aint all that, at least to start out anyway.

I went to school for Business management and Computer info systems and worked for 10 bucks an hour for the better part of 10 years, going from one management job to another, most of which promote from within so there you are, stuck...Start at the bottom, work your way up to that 10 an hour job in management. Unless you are at the corporate level and are spectacular at what you do it's just a fact of life, especially these days..

I worked in a factory for several years that paid a lot more than what I went to school for, tough job but the pay was great and to this day have not yet found a job in management making what I did at the factory.

Bottom line is, expect to start out at the bottom, if you are good at what you do you will make contacts in time that will propel you further ahead. The real thing to do is start your own thing after the starting at the bottom and making friends and contacts and you will realize the pay off for your schooling. Good luck in your endeavors....

[medsar]

This should be your plan if you like living wages.

My "young" cousin became an RN a few years back even though he had no interest in it. He started making big money right away, and he's is now clearing $1600 a week. A WEEK! He hates his job, but all the toys makes it worth it. This should be your plan. You would have the extra cash to build your own high end shop out back, and with a giant beautiful home in front. you need to quickly decide how you want to live. You could have boats, motorcyles, fast cars, pool tables all while your still young enough to enjoy them. The music industry is for the lucky lottery winners, and the poor. There no room for a working guy with a family.

If my username doesn't hint at my profession...then let me tell you that using a day job to finance your love for guitars is the way to go. Think of it this way - all the builders on this site say they work 70-80hrs a week. Get your RN or some professional degree, work 30-40hrs a week and finance your own guitar luthier shop for those other 40hrs a week. I would think your "job security" in this current economic climate would be a huge peace of mind. It is for me.
---Hats off to the builders who may have to close doors simply because people are not buying guitars as much anymore---

[voodoochild]

If my username doesn't hint at my profession...then let me tell you that using a day job to finance your love for guitars is the way to go. Think of it this way - all the builders on this site say they work 70-80hrs a week. Get your RN or some professional degree, work 30-40hrs a week and finance your own guitar luthier shop for those other 40hrs a week. I would think your "job security" in this current economic climate would be a huge peace of mind. It is for me.
---Hats off to the builders who may have to close doors simply because people are not buying guitars as much anymore---

Amen. I used to be a full time repair shop. 60-80 hrs every week. My wife said I was married to it and not her. Finally I got a job in the same industry but as a manager for another company. All of that 60-80 hrs a week paid off because now I only work 40-50 hrs a week. It gave me time to go back to school, spend time with the kids, and I can take repairs that I want to take for "extra cash". Now I can do what I love without the pressure. It also gave me the time to go a different direction. I can actually build guitars now unlike before when I had no choice but to repair. Repair paid the bills. Building did not. If I ever get full time making guitars I can go into it without as much risk because I have a day job to leave. If not, I can stay where I am.

[EffectsGuru]

I recently started doing setups and repairs out of my house ( i had a repair shop but had a hard time with the high rent here)... and it's going very well... so I'm pretty stoked that I'm not in Cali making less than a living wage.

When you go to a fast food joint... you know the one... they always get your order wrong.... could it be because they make so little? ($6.15 - 8.00 starting in my state) Is there a chance that people work harder when payed better? For me the answer is obvious... and it's not that they mean to do that, people work harder when they are happy, and if a few bucks, and a job that doesn't have you doing the same repetitive action over and over makes them happy? These subjects have been studied to the extent that some employers offer comfortable lounges with nice couches to allow their employees to take naps ( and they recommend that employees do!) for 15-30 min a day! The studies have shown that their work output was substantially higher. Just food for thought... I hope no one gets worked up over me speaking my mind. Cheers!

[Enzo]

Nothing wrong with speaking your mind, it just invites others to do the same.

I am over on the amplifier side of this equation, but the experiences are related. I own and operate an electronics repair shop, and I barely make the rent. I get guys calling up wanting to be interns or junior techs or whatever all the time. (Or the guy who wants to hang out and watch). Sorry I can;t afford it.

In this game a technician costs more than his wages. I'd have to make space and set up and wire a bench, put a computer on it with internet access. He'd need test equipment. I also have the bookeeping expense of having an employee, withholding income taxes, etc.

I agree with John's post much earlier, give me some experience over credentials any day. I have over the decades hired and trained many technicians - not here - and a guy with a fresh credential is often useless. Nothing personal. He can quote Thevenin's theorem, but can;t figure out how to get the Chassis out of a Fender Twin. When I hire a guy, I expect some basic knowledge, but practical experience speaks loudly. But mainly I am looking for a good attitude. I want someone who is interested, curious, WILLING TO LEARN, and yes someone who thinks about what he is doing.

I wish you well, and I hope you figure out how to parlay all this potential into something rewarding.

And geetings from just up I-96.