licensed floyd tuning issues

[jojohoho]

i have an esp f-250 and for some time i have had issues with tuneing i have an understanding of the fulcrom point and such and to where i can tune and play it but over time no matter how close i get it it slowly goes out of tune until the fine tuners are maxed out one way or another, i use heavier gauged strings and tune to drop C ....i also use my buddys ibanez rg and have the same issues with his but worse.....i dont fully get the inoation and cannot afford or find a decent guitar tech that can tune it properly as well ive taken it to 3 shops and each time it would be tuned fine and then as soon as i dive with the bar its done.....this problem is so frustating and expesive with strings and shop trips i want to sell the damn thing and get a string thru or tune o matic bridge.....any advice or suggestions plz pass my way or even posible interest in buying my guitar.....xxx_usefulidiot_xxx@yahoo.com

[David Schwab]

Do you stretch your strings when you put them on? It sounds like they are stretching over time.

I give them a gentle pull, and then retune. I do that about 3 times and then after that they are settled in. Stretch them with the nut locked, and then retune with the nut unlocked and the tuners, not the fine tuners.

After the strings are stable you shouldn't have to use the fine tuners much, as the strings should stay in tune.

If you are having issues from using heavier gauge strings, make sure you adjust the trem springs to compensate.

[jojohoho]

strech

yea i do stretch the strings and the one time i had a guitar tech who's shop is now closed set up the guitar he put waht i think were 11-52 im not sure pretty heavy strings and he had put 5 springs on wich i still use....when he had it setup i had no issues for over a year till some pos used my guitar and proceeded to twist the neck to get some strech effect and poped a string i almost killed the guy....he showed up to audition for my band with an acoustic guitar and abused and trash talked my gear needless to say he knew nothing of a floating bridge and was not invited back to jam...anyway that guy closed his shop and i have had no luck with the instrument myself....as it is setup now with the heavy strings i had to raise the bridge slightly and ajust the neck to a slight concave to stop the buzzing on the neck it will stay in tune but no whammy bar fun....

[jojohoho]

yea i do stretch the strings and the one time i had a guitar tech who's shop is now closed set up the guitar he put waht i think were 11-52 im not sure pretty heavy strings and he had put 5 springs on wich i still use....when he had it setup i had no issues for over a year till some pos used my guitar and proceeded to twist the neck to get some strech effect and poped a string i almost killed the guy....he showed up to audition for my band with an acoustic guitar and abused and trash talked my gear needless to say he knew nothing of a floating bridge and was not invited back to jam...anyway that guy closed his shop and i have had no luck with the instrument myself....as it is setup now with the heavy strings i had to raise the bridge slightly and ajust the neck to a slight concave to stop the buzzing on the neck it will stay in tune but no whammy bar fun....

[billyz]

Welcome to the Wonderful world of the Floyd Rose nightmare.

I charge extra to work on these for good reason, and this is one of them.
First, before tightening the nut (it should be almost tight, but the string can still move thru) stretch and tune. You must do all the strings to pitch and all in tune. Then Repeat, Continue to stretch and tune until the string no longer stretches. There is no magic number to how many times you must stretch and tune. Then tighten the lock nut and recheck again. Of course you have already backed out the fine tuners. You may still find that the string has gone sharp due to tightening the nut, hopefully you have enough fine tuner left to compensate.
If not, loosen the nut retune the string with a hair of fine tuner left, retighten check it all again.

This assumes your fulcrum points are in good condition and the metal is of great quality. Otherwise, it will still go out of tune when you dive bomb.

Also, in my experience, Floyds do not respond well to strings heavier than 10-46 and really prefer 9's or even 8's. The dropped tuning would compensate some for this.

[jrfrond]

I recently had a problem with a licensed Floyd not returning to proper tune, and as it turned out, the studs were wearing at the knife edge contact point. My guess is that these weren't hardened studs. As a temporary fix, I just turned the studs a half-turn to expose some fresh contact area, but it will happen again. Since it is my own axe, I'll just wait until it happens again before I take it apart and install some new original Floyd studs.

[Gunn_Slinger]

hi
if your trem is in good shape ( metal wise ) then its mostly about the position of the trem in relation to the FRETBOARD!...most techs align the floyd to float even with the body of the guitar (by adjusting the springs in the trem cavity ). but to stay in tune , the floyd must float even with the fretboard. ive had an old 90's rg for 15 yrs...never stayed in tune till a guitar tech showed me this. now its always in tune...as is my agile ps 970 with floyd....the agile is a prs copy and thus has a rounded body shape. so when the trem looks level with the body cavity, its not level with the fretboard. try this alignment and you should be good. if you live in the washington dc metro area, the best guitar tech is Gary at sharpenyouraxxe.com....check it out
Clay

[.Brandon]

I think using 5 springs is way too much. I still only have two springs on and I use .12's. I seldom have tuning issues with my Trem . I learned how to set up my FR by watching the DvD's that came with my Guitar World Magazines. Definitely give this a try though.

Musicians Institute Video Lesson Series - Guitar World

[Plucky]

yea i do stretch the strings and the one time i had a guitar tech who's shop is now closed set up the guitar he put waht i think were 11-52 im not sure pretty heavy strings and he had put 5 springs on wich i still use...as it is setup now with the heavy strings i had to raise the bridge slightly and ajust the neck to a slight concave to stop the buzzing on the neck it will stay in tune but no whammy bar fun....

Here's the deal:

1) Heavier strings should not require you to raise the action or loosen the truss rod. That is a separate issue, possibly humidity-related, unless there was a subsequent change in string brand or a lightening of the gauge.

2) when a guitar is set-up, you need to maintain the same gauge AND brand of strings, as core size and alloy can vary between manufacturers, resulting in different tension.

3) If you have the stock trem on this guitar, it is of a lower quality, which means the baseplate is too soft and it does not have hardened blade inserts. Because of this, there is too much friction. The trem will not return to center on its own - if you dive and let go, it will stay flat, and if you pull up and let go, it will stay sharp. You need to wobble it back to center to re-establish equilibrium. This said, if the springs are cheap as well, they will add to this problem.

4) finally, keeping all of this in mind, as long as the locking nut and saddle blocks are tight enough, it sounds like you need to tighten the screws on the trem claw a quarter turn or so. The deviation in the trem could create the impression that it's in tune but after a bit of use, it becomes apparent that the strings are pulling more than the springs.

Good luck.

...I need a drink now...

[Plucky]

I think using 5 springs is way too much. I still only have two springs on and I use .12's. I seldom have tuning issues with my Trem . I learned how to set up my FR by watching the DvD's that came with my Guitar World Magazines. Definitely give this a try though.

Musicians Institute Video Lesson Series - Guitar World

Quick follow-up. Regarding the advice given in the linked video; angling the trem spring claw will only defer tension laterally, resulting in a lateral redistribution of friction as well. It will not alter the available pitch difference as implied in the video. With the same springs, this is only accomplished by altering the anchor point of the springs(claw) in an overall fashion, resulting in an overall change in the termination point of the springs. If you adjust the treble side forward 1/8, and the bass side back 1/8, chances are that the overall tension is still the same, resulting in no change to the angle of the bridge OR the available pitch difference.

For example: a set of D'addario EXL110s(10-46) exert roughly 103.6 lbs. The springs countering them need to exert the same tension in order to 'balance' the trem. By tightening the trem(or spring)claw, you will bring the back of the bridge closer to the body, or cavity. This, despite limiting the pitch change on the pull-back, does not change the tension, as the bridge will always(try to) accommodate a state of equilibrium. But angling the claw without changing its center position(provided the springs are of a decent quality) will only change the distribution, but not the overall tension; the trem will still operate with the same difference in pitch, provided the angle of the trem baseplate is the same in relation to the body.