Callahan Trem Blocks...Hyperbole or Effective?

[Steve Conner]

Well, people use the word "damp" casually in a way that has nothing to do with its engineering meaning.

According to the real meaning of the word, adding mass to a vibrating system doesn't damp it, it just lowers its resonant frequency. The potential to oscillate is still there. So I don't see how the block "damps" anything: it certainly doesn't damp the oscillations caused by bashing on the whammy bar, it just sets their frequency.

Mechanical problems are often solved by electrical analogues, and one possible mapping is inertia to capacitance. Then elasticity (mechanical compliance) becomes inductance, and the thing that engineers call "damping" becomes resistance. And a mass on the end of a spring becomes a RLC circuit.

You can do it the other way round, inertia to inductance, but damping still ends up as resistance, because it's the only one that dissipates energy. The other two are reactive, they store and release it.

I would say that a heavy trem block increases the moment of inertia of the bridge assembly, which causes more of an impedance mismatch at the string/bridge interface, stopping energy from coupling out of the strings, and that's how it reduces warbling and increases sustain. It's a mechanical equivalent of a decoupling capacitor in an electric circuit.

The boing thing is easy, I had an old Yamaha superstrat with a Floyd Rose that would do it all day long. That was the only interesting thing it did, it was a horrible guitar otherwise.

[jrfrond]

Just for shits and giggles, here is a blurb from the Callaham website:

"Aftermarket bridges have copied the use of zinc without any thought of how can this be improved. In the 70's when CBS took over Fender they threw out Leo's steel strat bridge and changed to the one piece cast zinc (Mazac) bridge to cut cost. The result was the worst sounding strats produced by Fender. Zinc simple should not be used as a bridge material. Brass has been used because it has "more mass", aluminum because it has "less mass". "Mass" is not the property of the bridge material that matters. But it is easy to measure for those who do not understand vibrations."

[Steve Conner]

Well, I respect your experience with drums, cymbals and so on, but I don't think the trem block is quite the same thing.

Maybe I buy the idea that a soft metal like Mazak will give worse tone because it has higher internal damping, that is to say, it absorbs the vibrations from the strings internally instead of reflecting them. In other words it behaves like a resistance when it should be a reactance. (Keeping with the electrical analogue, the decoupling cap has high ESR.)

And I buy into the idea that the more massive the block, the better. The bigger a decoupling cap is, the better it decouples.

But to me the block just doesn't seem like the right shape of thing for its internal resonances to affect the tone radically. You know what a cowbell sounds like. But imagine what a cowbell would sound like if it were a solid block of whatever metal cowbells are made out of, rather than a thin hollow shell. I think it would make no noise and your drumstick would snap.

I have a couple of spare guitar pickups lying around. What if I stuck one to the back of my guitar and tried to pick up the vibrations of the trem block? It's steel, so it should work. Would that prove anything?

[Mark Hammer]

When *I* use the term "damp" in this context, I am thinking in terms of something that interferes with the reciprocal retransmission of energy back through the block and into the springs after the arm has been released, as opposed to negligible after-effects of releasing the arm.

Unless I understood what Beck does incorrectly, somehow a sudden release of a pulled tremolo arm results in the modulation of the bridge/block at audio frequencies, such that the note starts out sounding like it is being modulated at 30-40hz or whatever, and then simmers down. Whenever *I* let go of the tremolo arm, things simply go back to pitch. The "ka-boing" simply never happens....EVER. I'm trying to find out why.

[jrfrond]

And I reiterate: It all DOES work in practice, which is where it counts. Some ears are more discerning than others.

The same principles apply to all vibrating bodies. String energy does flow into the block and gets reflected back into the strings. The alloy of the block DEFINITELY affects the resulting tonality. I used cymbals as an analogy because they are made from specific resonant metal alloys, usually B20 or B8 bronze (80%/20% and 92%/8% copper:tin, respectively). Change the alloy, you change the cymbal. Change any metal alloy or the way it is processed, and the sound changes.

We all know that with wood, even different parts of the same tree will sound different. Also the way the wood is cut, the relative humidity, etc. affect final tonality. Why is the concept that something similar happens with a metal block so unbelieveable?

I am somewhat used to this drill though. My older son is a mathematician, and if it can be proven through equations, to him, it doesn't exist. I don't need the math. I have ears!

[uvacom]

And I reiterate: It all DOES work in practice, which is where it counts. Some ears are more discerning than others.

The same principles apply to all vibrating bodies. String energy does flow into the block and gets reflected back into the strings. The alloy of the block DEFINITELY affects the resulting tonality. I used cymbals as an analogy because they are made from specific resonant metal alloys, usually B20 or B8 bronze (80%/20% and 92%/8% copper:tin, respectively). Change the alloy, you change the cymbal. Change any metal alloy or the way it is processed, and the sound changes.

We all know that with wood, even different parts of the same tree will sound different. Also the way the wood is cut, the relative humidity, etc. affect final tonality. Why is the concept that something similar happens with a metal block so unbelieveable?

I am somewhat used to this drill though. My older son is a mathematician, and if it can be proven through equations, to him, it doesn't exist. I don't need the math. I have ears!

Out of curiosity, what were the circumstances under which you compared two different kinds of steel blocks of the same dimensions on an otherwise identical guitar? Did you know which block you were listening to when you heard these differences?

[dai h.]

When *I* use the term "damp" in this context, I am thinking in terms of something that interferes with the reciprocal retransmission of energy back through the block and into the springs after the arm has been released, as opposed to negligible after-effects of releasing the arm.

Unless I understood what Beck does incorrectly, somehow a sudden release of a pulled tremolo arm results in the modulation of the bridge/block at audio frequencies, such that the note starts out sounding like it is being modulated at 30-40hz or whatever, and then simmers down. Whenever *I* let go of the tremolo arm, things simply go back to pitch. The "ka-boing" simply never happens....EVER. I'm trying to find out why.

is this that "cricket" thing Brad Gillis does? I think you need a Floyd for similar type for that. It needs to be floating, and you 'twing' (pull and release sort of like pulling and releasing a rubber band) the bar and the note/bar vibrates. (sorry if you've got something else in mind)

[Mark Hammer]

Not familiar with Brad Gillis (at least knowingly), but yes, it is precisely what you allude to.

[dai h.]

gained fame with Ozzy first(I think) as a sort of "hired gun" guitarist, then with Night Ranger (had a hit with "Sister Christian"). NR--dual guitar band, poppy guitar centric band, two vocalists. Some soundtrack success (Michael J. Fox, Secret of My Success, if mem. serves). BG I think was famous for his trem use and maybe the M/Boogie amp association also(?). Not a huge fan or anything but I still have a P.J. Marx Brad Gillis model pickup.

Brad Gillis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[tedmich]

Here's some steel trem blocks, including genuine Fender parts, for a lot less than the Callahan.

Guitar Parts Resource:: Tremolo Blocks

They have a Titanium block too, for stupid money.

reminds me of the Ti Hammer "15 oz titanium head eases fatigue, yet it's driving force equals 28 oz steel"

what you really need is MASS, Os Ir W Blocks!

~30cm^3 block = ~250g steel, but 720g of Os/Ir alloy! (see Jackson "Buttplug" but google with care!)

[jrfrond]

Here is the cheapest steel or brass block alternative:

Upgrade Steel and Brass Tremolo Blocks

[David Schwab]

Will they though? To take John's analogy, imagine a cymbal or snare drum shell made of diecast zinc. It's not going to sound that good.

That analogy doesn't work either. Cymbals are basically bells. They ring when you hit them. Same is true of a drum shell.

Trem blocks don't ring when you hit them, and if they did you would probably find it annoying.

Of course maybe the inertia block isn't the same thing as a cymbal or drum shell, and the analogy is invalid.

It could be that its resonances and internal damping aren't significant to the guitar tone, and all that matters is its mass. I certainly don't hear much through the amp when I tap my block with a screwdriver through the hole in the back of the guitar, and I somehow doubt a Callahan one would ring like a bell.

Resonances and internal damping are important, as are standing waves, but not necessarily in the trem block.

If you want to see what mass does, clamp a weight to your headstock, or even on the trem block and give a listen.

(and why do they call it a "tremolo" when it does vibrato?)

Even with the inertia block, a Strat will warble slightly, and bending one string hard will lower the pitch of the others. It's probably part of the Strat sound.

I actually like that warble. Floyds are good at that. You can flick the arm or even just hit the body. Like Brad Gillis used to do. I tend to avoid floyds, but I used to use one back in the day.

I have a Charvel Strat that I replaced the vintage style bridge with an old ESP flicker. The bridge is probably die cast zinc, the block isn't very large, and the strings anchor right under the bridge plate.

It sounds fine. Sounds pretty much like the vintage bridge. It pivots on two knife edges resting on a bar screwed into the body uses the original screw holes. It stays in tune pretty well for a non locking unit, but I don't dive bomb with it. Just use it for giving some shimmer to chords.

I've installed a lot of different bridges over the years, and I've never had one that didn't sound good, unless it was solid brass. They sound dull to me.

The vintage stuff with the bent steel saddles sound good, as do the modern ones. They sound different, but different is good too. I have no interest in wanting my guitar to sound like SRV or a '56 framastat. As long as I like it. All my guitars and basses sound different.

I generally change bridges because the new bridge is more functional or looks better. If you think about it, Fenders had covers over the bridges, so they never made them to look good. Lots of 60's guitars had butt ugly bridges.

[Ronsonic]

is this that "cricket" thing Brad Gillis does? I think you need a Floyd for similar type for that. It needs to be floating, and you 'twing' (pull and release sort of like pulling and releasing a rubber band) the bar and the note/bar vibrates. (sorry if you've got something else in mind)

Gillis was using a Kahler at the time. Even less stable than a Floyd.

[overdrive]

The vintage stuff with the bent steel saddles sound good, as do the modern ones. They sound different, but different is good too. I have no interest in wanting my guitar to sound like SRV or a '56 framastat. As long as I like it.

Very good point. At times there seems to be a bit too much of a hang-up on the part of certain builders, buyers & players in trying to painstakenly replicate that so-called 50s or 60s era sound. Maybe it's simply a babyboomer mentality.

Afterall in 1960 for example, a 1957 or 1954 Stratocaster was only 3-6 years old, relatively new in my book & these instruments at the time were just the basic guitars that musicians used to record & perform with. A vintage-era Stratocaster probably sounded slightly different then than it does now, given factors like the gradual degaussing of the pickup magnets & the shrinking of the nitro finish over time. Yet there are countless individuals striving to re-create what is essentially a tonal abstraction or quite possibly, a sonic illusion...kind of like trying reference the sound in 2054 of a 2004 Stratocaster being played in 2010.

10-20 years from now, chances are the ensuing musical generations will give a rat's ass about vintage-sounding Tubescreamers, Fuzz Faces & vintage-style boutique pickups. It's actually taking place right now & I wouldn't be surprised if all of those overpriced 60s era Dallas Rangemasters & 50s era Stratocasters begin depreciating in value once the babyboomers start dying off.

[David Schwab]

Gillis was using a Kahler at the time. Even less stable than a Floyd.

Was he? I had one on my bass and I never got it to warble. They use a cam so they don't bounce like fulcrum trems. I find them to be way more stable. But they feel different.

This doesn't look like a Kahler. Looks like an early Floyd to me.

Kahler did do a fulcrum bridge like the Floyd after a while. I installed the very first one made on an American Showster guitar that was in Playboy magazine in 1987.





[edit]

I found this:

Brad Gillis Of Night Ranger Talks Guitars | Gearwire

Gillis plays a few guitars live, but as a collector, he has over 150 instruments. For playing live he has a couple of favorites.

"My fave all time is one I sanded down in the 70s -- a '62 strat. [I] Painted it red with leftover paint from my Datsun and put in a Floyd Rose," says Gillis.

He also has a 1986 Fernandes Brad Gillis model which also has a Floyd Rose.

He is a big fan of the Floyd Rose locking tremolo.

"He (Floyd Rose) made the first batch in his garage. I have the third one ever made built in my red Strat," he says. "I've created a style using the tremolo. Later ones they made, they did not make as well."

The reason the latter ones were not as good as the originals? The metal wasn't as hard, the casing wasn't as hard. Gillis says the heavier the metal the more stable the system is. He is fond of the locking tuners.

"I can use one guitar all night. It is amazing how they stay in tune for me." he says.

So it was an early Floyd. I've seen a few of those in person. That's like the one EVH had.