Why do two identical guitars sound so different?

[Fatcat]

Hi guys and gals. I am new here and was inspired to join after I read a recent thread here on how neck wood type can influence tone... excellent info so thanks for that first off.

I recently bought a new cheap Tele guitar. (Can I say brands and models on this forum?) Anyway I liked it so much that I bought another of the same model with plans to do some mods on one and keep the other stock. The first thing I noticed when playing them side by side was that they dont sound the same. One has a slightly more muddy tone to it than the other. Its quite an obvious difference and has got me wondering why.

I said they are the same but there are actually two differences. One is I put a different bridge pickup in one of them and two is the neck on the last one I bought has changed in that it has a matt or dull finish on it while the first one I bought has a more glossy finish. As for the pickup change my comparisons were all done with the neck pickups which were both stock. I had changed out the bridge P/U in one of the guitars. My first thought was could the different bridge pickup influence the tone even if I was only using the neck pickup? I think that unlikely but I dont really know enough about things to say for sure. I decided before I do any mods I would like to find out why the 2 sound different in the first place. This leads me to my questions:

Before I start swapping parts back and forth between the 2 guitars does anyone have any suggestions on where its best to start. I was thinking of swapping the 2 neck pickups first and failing that the guitar necks. Does that make sense or ? Perhaps I should swap the whole pickguard assembly to?

Also if I want to swap necks am I putting the instruments at risk by doing so? Is it as simple as just unscrewing it and then screwing it back on again?

If none of that works then would I be correct in assuming its the bodys wood thats the difference?

Any comments or suggestions would be most helpful and thanks in advance from Fatcat.

[jrfrond]

It's mostly the wood, both the neck and body. No two pieces of wood are alike. Most people who have a great guitar with all of the mojo they ever wanted are usually disappointed when they purchase or build an "identical" one, only to find it isn't the same. There can be consistency within a run of guitars of of a production line, but rarely identical guitars. It's almost impossible.

[pdf64]

Try re-stringing both guitars with new identical sets of strings.
Different brands / gauges create tonal differences that I wouldn't have thought possible as being attributable to the strings, until I went through a similar exercise.

[David Schwab]

How do they sound acoustically? Do they sound the same or different? Tey it with new strings on both guitars.

If they sound the same acoustically, then the difference is in the electronics.

If they sound different, then it is the wood, as John said.

The finish has no impact on the tone of a solid body guitar.

Are they SX guitars? I have a customer that got a SX Tele, and after I put new pickups and electronics in, it's a great little guitar.

[Brad1]

The finish has no impact on the tone of a solid body guitar.

Is that true? Bogus claims, all, of different finishes affecting tone?

Sounds like a job for Mythbusters. Maybe they can figure out a way to test a '57 Strat finished, and then stripped down?

It would be a good experiment. Would be easier to go to the Fender factory and test a new guitar before finished, and after, although that could even introduce some variables removing and installing necks and hardware, I guess.

Seriously, though. Is it all bunk?

Brad1

[David Schwab]

Is that true? Bogus claims, all, of different finishes affecting tone?

Pretty much...

Sounds like a job for Mythbusters. Maybe they can figure out a way to test a '57 Strat finished, and then stripped down?

That's the problem. You have to test them the other way round. First with no finish, and then finished.

Some people get guitars with thick poly finishes and then sand the finish off... along with some wood.

Thick poly finishes are usually ugly. But it's like spray painting a cymbal or a drum head. It's not enough mass to really alter the tone.

The other stuff about the wood breathing, or nitro letting the moisture out of the wood is also nonsense, since wood doesn't breathe, and if a finish can let moisture out, it will let it back in too.

It would be a good experiment. Would be easier to go to the Fender factory and test a new guitar before finished, and after, although that could even introduce some variables removing and installing necks and hardware, I guess.

I've already listened to instruments I made with and without finish. I also have a few that I stripped the finish off and then oiled. It sounded the same in each instance.

Seriously, though. Is it all bunk?

Pretty much. Too thick a finish is not good, but there's no evidence that it will affect the tone on a solid body guitar. An acoustic guitar, yes.

Look at old Fenders and even Rickenbackers. They had a thick coat of Fullerplast, with is a catalyzed plastic like finish. Then they would spray lacquer color coats over it. They sound fine.

But I guess someone at some point figured old guitars sound better and the new ones have poly finishes, so it must be the finish. Also they compare cheap poly finished Squiers and Epiphones to more expensive instruments.

But some very nice instruments are finished with polyester and sound good.

[Fatcat]

How do they sound acoustically? Do they sound the same or different? Tey it with new strings on both guitars.

Are they SX guitars? I have a customer that got a SX Tele, and after I put new pickups and electronics in, it's a great little guitar.

Actually they sound very different from each other acoustically. I believe the strings are the same but the action on one of them is low to the point of buzzing against the frets... but thats another question. I think I need to set them the same to make a fair comparison.

The guitars are the Squier Affinity series butterscotch Telecasters! They are so nice for the price I can hardly believe it.

Thanks to everyone for all the replies!

[Mark Hammer]

I keep reminding folks that the principal differences between budget and higher-priced instruments are often consistency, attention to detail,and quality control.

If someone makes a $2500 Tele clone, you can bet that they are orienting its construction towards a particular sonic goal or set of objectives. When someone makes a $200 Tele clone, their job is considered done when all the parts are in place and the thing looks like a Tele. Some of them may hit the jackpot, but many will not. In the absence of trying to build it to sound a certain way, and be guided by the sonic goals, there is no assurance any two will sound identical.

This is why, in many respects, I would unhesitatingly purchase an instrument from a custom maker via e-mail, but would be reticent to buy a budget instrument unless I was in a position to try out a bunch in person, and pick the best from among them.

And like John said, wood varies.

[jrfrond]

I
Sounds like a job for Mythbusters. Maybe they can figure out a way to test a '57 Strat finished, and then stripped down?

Sure they can do it, if they can fine someone stupid enough to let them strip their '57 Strat!

[David Schwab]

Actually they sound very different from each other acoustically. I believe the strings are the same but the action on one of them is low to the point of buzzing against the frets... but thats another question. I think I need to set them the same to make a fair comparison.

Change the strings on both, and get them set up the same. Then listen. Low action makes the guitar sound thin. I like low action myself, but you need to have perfectly leveled frets and can't go too low or it sounds thin and wimpy.

Raising the action up a little will gives you a bigger tone.

[David Schwab]

Sounds like a job for Mythbusters. Maybe they can figure out a way to test a '57 Strat finished, and then stripped down?

I don't know when they started using it, but the Fenders sealed with Fullerplast cannot be stripped down to the wood without sanding. Most people just stop at the Fullerplast and spray a new finish over it.

I stripped down my '74 P bass and had just left it at the Fullerplast. I had an instant natural finish!

Sometimes they stained the wood yellow first for a sunburst, and then put the clear Fullerplast over it.

[Fatcat]

Change the strings on both, and get them set up the same. Then listen. Low action makes the guitar sound thin. I like low action myself, but you need to have perfectly leveled frets and can't go too low or it sounds thin and wimpy.

Raising the action up a little will gives you a bigger tone.

Making the action the same as the comparison guitar certainly makes good sense. Problem is the bridge saddles are already way high and adjusting the truss rod doesnt seem to help. I am thinking I will have to shim the neck a little. So I have a little homework to do before I can get the strings raised up. I have never removed a neck before... is it as straightforward as it looks? Do I just remove the cover plate and screws?

[Fatcat]

If someone makes a $2500 Tele clone, you can bet that they are orienting its construction towards a particular sonic goal or set of objectives. When someone makes a $200 Tele clone, their job is considered done when all the parts are in place and the thing looks like a Tele. Some of them may hit the jackpot, but many will not. In the absence of trying to build it to sound a certain way, and be guided by the sonic goals, there is no assurance any two will sound identical.

I couldnt agree with you more Mark and at $185 canadian each I certainly wouldnt expect them to sound the same. I am looking at this as a good opportunity to learn more about why one guitar sounds different from another... My biggest problem right now is how to get the strings up off the neck with the bridge saddles already fully extended. There is no neck tilt available on this guitar.

Thanks again!

[Ronsonic]

Without diving into this moshpit of opinion on guitar finishes, I will call this one "Thick poly finishes are usually ugly. But it's like spray painting a cymbal or a drum head. It's not enough mass to really alter the tone."

My drummer uses a thin ring dampener on his snare head. An annular ring of what appears to be mylar about a half inch wide and maybe 10 mils thick that lays on the head along the rim. This has far less mass than a coat of paint and it has a very distinct effect on the sound of the drum.

[kurtdaniel]

there are a lot of variables that would make guitars sound different, wood quality/species/age, moisture levels in the wood, wood grain, thickness of paint/type of finish body shape/thickness etc. I learned this from how to learn guitar mag..