Guitar neck setup question

[Fatcat]

Hi Guys and gals!

I have a Squier Affinity Tele that I am trying to set up and have hit a bit of a roadblock. The strings on it are so low that its buzzing against the frets like crazy. Also the bridge saddles are way up so there is not a lot of room to raise them any higher.

I tried tightening the truss rod a quarter turn a day for a few days and that didnt seem to do anything so then I tried loosening it and that didnt do anything either!

If you are thinking at this point that I dont know what I am doing then you are correct. Its a $200 guitar and I bought 2 of them so I have one to play around with and hopefully learn something without messing it up permanently.

I am thinking at this point that I may have to shim the neck a little and then bring the saddles back down and "Bobs your uncle"! (dont ask me what that means cus I dont have a clue). If anyone has any suggestions or comments they would be very much appreciated.

Thanks again for the help

sincerely

Fatcat

[Sock Puppet]

You're probably right about needing a shim.

There's a setup guide on the Fender site:

Stratocaster® Setup Guide

Good luck.

[Gibsonman63]

It is going to be very hard to dial things in with precision without being able to take some proper measurements. If you are really looking to get into this, I would invest in a few simple tools from Stewart McDonald (STEWMAC.COM : Guitar, Bass, Banjo, Mandolin, Parts, Tools, Supplies, Free Information) They have a lot of good instructional information as well.

[drewfx]

Before you ramdomly mess with things, you need to know exactly what's wrong and, as noted above, possibly take measurements.

Some basic questions before messing with things:
Does it buzz everywhere, or just on a few frets/certain part of the neck?
Does it buzz on every string? Which strings?
Do open strings buzz?
Does it buzz only when plucked hard?
Is it tuned to "normal" pitch? What guage strings?
Are you 100% sure the buzzing is coming from the frets, and not something else on the guitar?

Depending on the answers to these questions, the solution might be adjusting the truss rod in one direction or another, leveling a high fret, reseating a loose fret, adjusting the nut, adjusting the bridge, or something else...

[Fatcat]

Before you ramdomly mess with things, you need to know exactly what's wrong and, as noted above, possibly take measurements.

Some basic questions before messing with things:
Does it buzz everywhere, or just on a few frets/certain part of the neck?
Does it buzz on every string? Which strings?
Do open strings buzz?
Does it buzz only when plucked hard?
Is it tuned to "normal" pitch? What guage strings?
Are you 100% sure the buzzing is coming from the frets, and not something else on the guitar?

Depending on the answers to these questions, the solution might be adjusting the truss rod in one direction or another, leveling a high fret, reseating a loose fret, adjusting the nut, adjusting the bridge, or something else...

Thanks for your comments. The strings are just way to low and there is no relief anywhere. If I hold down the bottom E on the first and last frets the string is pretty much touching all the frets.

Hope this helps and thanks again!

[Chuck H]

The strings are just way to low and there is no relief anywhere. If I hold down the bottom E on the first and last frets the string is pretty much touching all the frets.

Hopefully you can adjust it so there will be relief in the neck. Some budget instruments strung light just won't adjust properly. Forget that 1/4 turn rule. Adjust the truss full loose and then just barely snug the nut back down and tune to pitch.

If after 24 hours you still have no relief then your only three options are to play it as it is (maybe raise the action real high and use it for slide), get a new neck or have a repair shop attempt to adjust it under heat and/or mill relief into the frets.

I have a feeling you'll get some relief and you can then begin making your 1/4 turn adjustments. As a novice all tightening adjustments should be 1/4 turn. The amount of relief is relative to string guage. I can't remember off the top of my head the correct relief for different strings. David Schwab may chime in and he'll know right off. Or I'll look it up and get back. Good fret dress is important for this measurement. I use feeler guages but there may be a better tool if someone knows.

Chuck

[Fatcat]

If after 24 hours you still have no relief then your only three options are to play it as it is (maybe raise the action real high and use it for slide), get a new neck or have a repair shop attempt to adjust it under heat and/or mill relief into the frets.
Chuck

I cant raise the action to use if for slide or anything else because the bridge saddles are already way high. I dont think a new neck would help either as the same problem would still be there wouldnt it? The neck thats on it now is super flat its whole length I just need to get the strings up and off it a little.

[Chuck H]

You don't neccesarily need to raise the action. Another consequence of budget instruments is lax tolerances. It's likely that the neck pocket on the body or the neck heel or both are off by enough that there is too much tilt to bring the bridge into adjustment. A simple shim will fix this. A tiny shim placed near the headstock end of the neck pocket will give loads of leeway at the bridge. But you should really attempt to adjust the truss rod first as it could save you a lot of trouble.

If you don't have any relief in the neck then raising the action is absolutely not all you need to do. Neck relief is paramount to the action hight adjustment. Hight adjustment should always follow the relief adjustment. Since you are a novice I would suggest that you set aside any appearent logic to your perceptions and simply follow the good advice given here.

Chuck

[Fatcat]

You don't neccesarily need to raise the action. Another consequence of budget instruments is lax tolerances. It's likely that the neck pocket on the body or the neck heel or both are off by enough that there is too much tilt to bring the bridge into adjustment. A simple shim will fix this. A tiny shim placed near the headstock end of the neck pocket will give loads of leeway at the bridge. But you should really attempt to adjust the truss rod first as it could save you a lot of trouble.

If you don't have any relief in the neck then raising the action is absolutely not all you need to do. Neck relief is paramount to the action hight adjustment. Hight adjustment should always follow the relief adjustment. Since you are a novice I would suggest that you set aside any apparent logic to your perceptions and simply follow the good advice given here.

Chuck

I did previously try to adjust the truss but with no success. I started by tightening the rod a quarter turn, waiting 24 hours and inspecting it. I did a quarter turn for a few days to the point where the rod was getting difficult to turn. At this point there was no changes to the neck evident to me.

Then I tried going the other way but this time more aggressively. Within a couple of days I had it slacked right of but still no noticeable change. Now I just put a slight amount of tension on it so its not flopping around in there and there it sits.

My guess is that it was making a difference but the action is so low that I couldnt detect it by measuring the distance between the strings and the frets.

I am thinking that if I do as you suggested and shim the neck a little I can then work the truss to introduce the desired relief to the neck.

[Chuck H]

I am thinking that if I do as you suggested and shim the neck a little I can then work the truss to introduce the desired relief to the neck.

It sounds like you already have the truss as loose as practical. Just for giggles go ahead and loosten the nut again and then just snug it back so it doesn't rattle. Try to do this with the strings at tension. It can be done though it's not always easy.

It's true that a greater angle from nut to bridge will allow the string tension to excert more force on the neck and truss rod. But we are really dealing with minutia here. The possibility that the bridge height adjustment will notably change the truss relief is tiny. This is a very fine adjustment, not a ham handed turn of a screw. You may need reading glasses and a VERY light touch to note any relief because it is a VERY tiny amount of bow. With a string fretted at the first and fourteenth frets a very light touch should detect the smallest gap between that string and the seventh fret. Pressing too hard on the first and/or fouteenth fret will throw the measurement as the string will bow up. When I say it's a small amount I'm talking about five thousandths to one hundredth of an inch.

If your certain you have NO relief with the strings at pitch then you need to explore one of the options above. The guitar will NEVER play correctly without some neck relief. If it's the neck heel that's responsible for the tilt angle not allowing for bridge adjustment then replacing the neck will solve two problems. You could probably get a slightly used aftermarket neck off Ebay very reasonable.

Chuck

[Jazz P Bass]

Strings too low

Your working on a budget guitar.
Shim It!

[David Schwab]

I'd also check to see if there is a shim in there already. It's common practice to place a shim at the body end of the neck pocket. If there is a shim there, remove it. That will raise the action.

If there is no shim, you need to place on at the other end of the neck pocket, away from the body.

Start off with something thin like a business card or match book cover. If that's not enough try doubling it.

Also, never tighten a truss rod without manually bending the neck. The rods are not made to move the neck, just to hold it in position. If you had an up bow (too much relief) you need to bend the neck straight as you tighten the rod. You can do this right over you knee if you have to. If you try and use just the rod to straighten the neck it might snap.

And remember, you tighten a rod to make the neck straighter and lower the action (less relief) and you loosen it to put an up bow (more relief) and raise the action.

[ninjadave7]

could it just be that the nut height or slots are way too low? have you measured them?

[Steve Conner]

Why not try sticking some heavier strings on it?

[Gtr_tech]

I use the high-e string as a straightedge when judging neck relief. I fret it at the first and 14th fret, and judge the relief at the center of that span. My preference is just a touch of travel from the string to the fret tops. I've never measured it......never needed to. So....you don't want the string laying on the fret tops, but you don't want a large distance there either. I'll try to snap a pic later to illustrate what I'm talking about.

Also remember that its a piece of wood and will take time to fully settle in. Adjust it to your preference....let it sit overnight....check it and adj as needed.

As far as David S.'s comment about manually positioning the neck before truss rod adjustment, I think thats mainly a Rickenbacker thing. I have to do that with Rics, but never needed to with anything else.

And.....neck adjustment *will* change with environmental conditions.....count on it. Its a piece of wood, and wood absorbs moisture.....which affects relief.