pickup recommendations

[cminor9]

I have an Ibanez SC420. It has a fixed bridge, and has a very thin and light mahogany body. This guitar has the best neck I have ever played, so I want to start gigging it instead of it being just a practice guitar. Trouble is the pickups sound weak and thin and do not drive the amp hard enough to be usable for much of what I play.

I normally play through a 5E3 or a Matchless Spitfire clone. It is really important to me to retain dynamics; I want to be able to turn the guitar's volume down for clean and turn up for dirt. I do not use pedals, so I need hot pickups for when I want to dial up the dirt. I want something that will articulate well, too, since I play clean a lot (mostly doing jazz trio gigs these days).

As a point of reference, I have an Epi dot with burstbuckers and the tone is nearly perfect for me through these amps. It goes from clean to growl and is very articulate.

Since this particular guitar is so thin and light and has a fairly bright tone, I am not sure which pickups to consider to meet the above criteria. I have considered getting a set of burstbuckers like I have in the epi. I also thought about a SD Jazz in the neck and maybe a SD SH-4 in the bridge. I even toyed with the idea of humbucker sized P-90s. The guitar has a five way switch and so I can split coils on the humbuckers. I'd like to keep this, but it's not necessary.

I know, it's hard to make recommendations on this type of thing. I could just buy something and it would be a vast improvement. But before I plunk down my hard earned, I wanted to see if anyone had any suggestions I had not considered. For example, are there any good independent pickup makers that are worth checking out?

[RoadToNever]

I always like to refer to this post:
10 Humbuckers Reviewed: Pickups off the Beaten Track - My Les Paul Forums

From my own experience the Bill Lawrence L90 has a firm and singing low end, sort of a PAF thing going on. From there on it sort of morphs into a smooth strat pickup. May be it's too polished compared to the pickups you mention but I can attest for it's fullness and output and it's got amazing clarity and definition clean as well as distorted.

[cminor9]

"May be it's too polished compared to the pickups you mention"

I just mentioned them because they are widely available and would give people a reference point. I do have the burstbuckers in the dot and they are pretty warm sounding and will drive my amps into OD pretty well. Maybe just a little dark, but they get the tone I am after. But I haven't played a lot of different (specific) pickups to really know them that well. All I know is that the ones in the guitar aren't quite getting it.

I'll have to see if I can find some Bill Lawrence pickups. Also, that link mentioned Alumitones. I have seen those. I wonder how they'd sound in this guitar. It's a really thin and light guitar without much substance. With those, it might come off really bright. Hmm, I guess there's always the tone control.

Thanks, RoadToNever, for the recommendations.

[Chuck H]

I'll vote for a SD JB bridge (very warm and smooth for a bridge pickup) and a Pearly Gates neck (a little lower in output but very clear and broad sounding for a neck PU). This combo should allow you dial up all your tones on that guitar.

Another option would be a really hot humbucker in the bridge and a single in the neck position with a three way blade switch wired to split the humbucker in the CTR position for a bridge single coil/ neck single coil combo. Unless you use a neck humbucker tone a lot. My fave pickup arrangement for clean is a middle/neck single coils in parallel or a bridge/neck singles in parallel and for mid distortion I like a single coil in the neck. For heavy dirt I like a humbucker in the bridge. Any arrangment that does this and a "bright" circuit on the guitars volume control will give you lots of useable stage tone without the need for pedals.

*NOTE: I'm a SD fan and don't care for most DiMarzio P'up's (SD's are potted better, sound better and have more useable qualities. I've had a few DiMarzio's that squealed under high gain and certain models are just voiced odd and can't do any "classic" tones... Intolerable for a modern P'up). JMHO, results may vary.

Chuck

[David Schwab]

*NOTE: I'm a SD fan and don't care for most DiMarzio P'up's (SD's are potted better, sound better and have more useable qualities. I've had a few DiMarzio's that squealed under high gain and certain models are just voiced odd and can't do any "classic" tones... Intolerable for a modern P'up). JMHO, results may vary.

I like just about even Duncan pickup I have heard, but there are a lot of good DiMarzios. The Air Norton is a great neck pickup for instance, and I have an Al DiMeola bridge pickups that is about my favorite bridge pickup. It's not as hot as a Super Distortion and uses an Alnico magnet.

But modern is not vintage, and the majority of pickups I seem to install these days are DiMarzios for the heavy rock guys, and Duncans for the others. A lot of guys mix and match.

I don't care for things like the Tone Zone, but they are made for ultra high gain, and not vintage tones.

[Chuck H]

Cool.

My experience with DiMarzio is limited to a few models. The Super Distortion IS a classic now and the PAF Pro is supposed to be really good. I am a Joe Satriani fan too. Hmmm. I haven't tried either model personally but I have heard Super Distortions squeal when you put the screws to them, They sound great for what they do when they don't squeal.

Chuck

[cminor9]

thanks guys. I think I am leaning toward the SDs or the alumitones. RoadToNever provided me with a link to Bill Lawrence pickups (thanks RoadToNever!) but with so much controversy and doubt surrounding who actually makes Bill Lawrence pickups, I am honestly a little scared off. That is too bad, cause I'd rather support an independent guy. However, I have been burned before. At least with someplace like Musician's Friend I know I am dealing with a reputable vendor and I have recourse if something goes wrong.

I am really curious to see if I can make this Ibanez into something other than a metal machine. I know it won't sound like a jazz archtop, but I want my own tone anyhow (even for jazz). Worst thing you can do, IMO, is sound like everyone else.

[David Schwab]

thanks guys. I think I am leaning toward the SDs or the alumitones.

Well there's two opposite ends of the spectrum!

RoadToNever provided me with a link to Bill Lawrence pickups (thanks RoadToNever!) but with so much controversy and doubt surrounding who actually makes Bill Lawrence pickups, I am honestly a little scared off. That is too bad, cause I'd rather support an independent guy. However, I have been burned before. At least with someplace like Musician's Friend I know I am dealing with a reputable vendor and I have recourse if something goes wrong.

Controversy and doubt???

This is Bill Lawrence, a.k.a. Billy Lorento, a.k.a. Willi Lorento Stitch

Bill Lawrence Website: About Bill

This company is NOT Bill Lawrence:

Bill Lawrence USA

They say right there that:

The “Bill Lawrence" trademark is solely owned by Jzchak Wajcman, dba “*Bill Lawrence USA”

Jzchak Wajcman was one of Bill's partners, but he is not the man who designed the pickups.

Here's the top of the patent for the L-500



Who's name do you see? You can also check the patents for pickups he designed for Gibson, and they say Willi L Stich, not Jzchak Wajcman. Wajcman owns the old Bill Lawrence company now, but is not Bill Lawrence.

You can get the real Bill Lawrence pickups here:

Wilde Pickups

[cminor9]

David,

thanks for the info my friend. I get the feeling I am rubbing you the wrong way. I apologize, that's not my intent. I haven't played any of these pickups, so I don't really know where the spectrum ends or begins. That's why I asked for advice. I dunno, maybe this topic is too subjective to ask for advice on.

If I google Bill Lawrence pickups (bill lawrence pickups - Google Search) I see several ecommerce sites that sell Bill Lawrence pickups. I also find things like this: Bill Lawrence pickups and controversy - Home Recording, which indeed is a long discussion about people using the Bill Lawrence name to sell subpar pickups. The title of that thread even uses the word controversy.

Which brings me back to why I was a bit apprehensive about just going to some random website, selecting some pickups based solely upon the recommendation of people I have only 'met' online, entering my credit card info, and then sitting on my porch with an immigrant smile waiting for pickups to magically arrive. There are a few different people making pickups and marketing them as Bill Lawrence pickups. I was trying to figure out whether a link that was given me was the real deal. I found conflicting information and yet nothing very authoritative. I wouldn't dare waste your time here without doing some research and then hitting a wall. I am not sum 15 y/o kid woo sined up 4 this site jus so u can help me find sum rilly kewl rawkin pu's 4 my guitare so i can sound liek tom morello but i only wanna spend like $54 dollas or someting cuz i dont work, kthxbai.

Both you and RoadToNever gave me the same url to the pickups, so thank you for that. I'll check them out. I very much appreciate the time you spent to find that information for me.

[David Schwab]

David,

thanks for the info my friend. I get the feeling I am rubbing you the wrong way. I apologize, that's not my intent. I haven't played any of these pickups, so I don't really know where the spectrum ends or begins. That's why I asked for advice. I dunno, maybe this topic is too subjective to ask for advice on.

No, you are not rubbing me the wrong way at all.

If I google Bill Lawrence pickups (bill lawrence pickups - Google Search) I see several ecommerce sites that sell Bill Lawrence pickups. I also find things like this: Bill Lawrence pickups and controversy - Home Recording, which indeed is a long discussion about people using the Bill Lawrence name to sell subpar pickups. The title of that thread even uses the word controversy.

That's why I suggested you go to Bill's site, and order pickups directly from him. Then you have no doubts! Bill Lawrence has designed many guitars and pickups for Gibson and has his legal birth name, Willi L. Stich, on all the patents. Bill Lawrence is his stage name since he was a guitarist for many years. He states on his web site that he had two business partners. Apparently one of them who must have been the person putting up the money, now owns the name Bill Lawrence USA. He also has the old work shop where the original Lawrence Sound Research pickups were made, like the L-500 and L-250.

Those other pickups are suppsidly made on the same machines as they always were, but I bought a L-250T once when Stew-Mac used to sell them, and when compared to two old L-250s in the same guitar, it was thin sounding and microphonic. Plus one of the mounting tabs broke right away.

There are a few different people making pickups and marketing them as Bill Lawrence pickups.

There should only be two. Bill Lawrence himself, who has to now legally use the trade name Wilde pickups... as in Wilde Bill.

There there is Bill Lawrence USA, which is run by his former business partner, Jzchak Wajcman. Wajcman took Bill to court to try and make him to stop using the name Bill Lawrence, but he was able to prove that that had been his stage name and business name for many years. So now we have the “Bill Lawrence" trademark, which is solely owned by Jzchak Wajcman, who does business as “Bill Lawrence USA”, and we have Bill lawrence the guitar and pickup designer, who now does business as Wilde.

I know many people who have bought pickups from Bill and his wife Becky, and are very happy with them. I have installed quite a few myself.

Here's one of my long time customers, Maurice Pringle with Bill. That's the real Bill Lawrence.

Both you and RoadToNever gave me the same url to the pickups, so thank you for that. I'll check them out. I very much appreciate the time you spent to find that information for me.

Bill does his own thing, but if you want a powerful pickup with no mud, those are great pickups.

[cminor9]

Good info. I think I am gonna pull the trigger on those Bill Lawrence pickups. I sent them an email asking about the diffs between the L-90 and the L-500. We'll see what happens. I'll share the results.

[RoadToNever]

Good write up David Schwab.

I'll throw in some of my own observations about differences between L90 and L500.
The L90 is capable of a deep and round tone with a snappy and clear strat-like high end. Ken Fischer of Trainwreck amp gives praises for this pickup and talks about how rhythm crunch and violin like lead tones are well handled. Kind of a good choice if it happens you don't want to stray to far from a PAF design but wan't a technically superior pickup.
The L500 is more 'in your face' and capable of a gritty and growly sound. Clean it's super clear and chimey. Both work well for jazz after rolling down the tone knob and it's hard to make them sound harsh or muddy.

[thumbs]

I liked your idea of using P-90 style pickups. They really sound good with a 5E3. I'm currently using Duncan Phat Cats in one of my guitars. Very nice pickups!

[cminor9]

Good write up David Schwab.

I'll throw in some of my own observations about differences between L90 and L500.
The L90 is capable of a deep and round tone with a snappy and clear strat-like high end. Ken Fischer of Trainwreck amp gives praises for this pickup and talks about how rhythm crunch and violin like lead tones are well handled. Kind of a good choice if it happens you don't want to stray to far from a PAF design but wan't a technically superior pickup.
The L500 is more 'in your face' and capable of a gritty and growly sound. Clean it's super clear and chimey. Both work well for jazz after rolling down the tone knob and it's hard to make them sound harsh or muddy.

Interesting. I was really leaning toward the 90, but after talking with Shannon at Wilde she suggested the 500, and sure enough, based on your description the 500 sounds just like what I want. I have a gig tomorrow night, and with money from that gig I'll be placing the order.

[RoadToNever]

If a vintage bell-like tone floats you boat go ahead and get the L90.