Wiring HSS Guitar with Fender S1 Switch; 2 Wire vs 4 Wire Humbucker

[Tommorichards]

Definitely makes a difference. I have a control bypass on my P, and you notice a few more highs creep in on bypass mode.

[Mark Hammer]

And if you have SC pickups, and a bypass/compensation cap on the volume pot, lookout....cuz you'll be playing the mating call of the male mosquito!! :-)

[RobRed]

I may have misunderstood what I had read elsewhere. I got it in my head that the no-load tone pot bypassed the capacitors altogether when in the "10" position. For that reason, I was going to put in 6 different capacitors and use the tone pot when I wanted to get them out of the equation.

Regarding the bypass/compensation cap on the volume pot, if I understand what you're talking about, man you can get different points of view on all this stuff. I had read you should use a cap and resistor between the end and wiper terminals of the volume pot to avoid losing high end as you drop the volume. Now it sounds like you're saying rather than just prevent the loss of the high frequencies, it exaggerates them, if that's what you mean by the male mosquito thing. Anyway, while I was buying hardware for this project, I ran across a cap and resistor twisted in parallel from Mojo (they call it the "volume mod"), and it seemed like a simple way to go about it, so I got one. Then I found this guy's site, Deaf Eddie as I recall, and he was emphatic that you do need a cap and resistor but that they should be in series rather than parallel (certainly a simple enough thing to change) or it will do terrible things to your tone! I've seen others mention a cap alone in that position, and there was all sorts of negative commentary on that (perhaps that gets back to the mosquito thing). On top of that, now I'm studying these schematics involving the Fender S1 switch, and if I'm reading it right, it appears there is an isolated cap (actually the units aren't listed, so I'm not sure--it might be a resistor) wired into that that is not on the pot component, but within the switch--I've attached an image of it as "Fender S1 Switch". I have no idea why either a cap or a resistor would be stuck in the middle of a switch or what it is for! I am officially going crazy now. ;(

I am trying to work my way through Fender's own schematic of use of the S1 switch and a super switch with 3 single coils. They give a small table that itemizes the results of selecting each of the positions of both switches. I have attached that image as "Table of Switch Selections". I recognize the pickups for the most part--N, M, & B are pretty obvious, but they threw a C in here and there, and I have no clue what that is. The bigger issue though in trying to sort the thing out is the use of other symbols. For instance, what is the difference between B+M and BxM? I am wondering if one represents the pickups in series and the other in parallel. I also don't know what the NT and BT off to the right of the table stand for. If someone recognizes this usage and could clue me in, it might help me a lot in sorting this out.

Thanks, again, for the ideas and any response. Rob R

[Mark Hammer]

My bad.

1) Yes, a "no load" tone pot does exactly what you said. If you lack such a pot, though, reserving one switch position for a "no cap" setting gets you to the exact same place. If you do have one of those pots, then the 6th position is up for grabs again.

2) The compensation of volume pots has a couple of goals in mind. One is certainly to adjust for the treble loss that results from loading as you reduce the volume, as well as biologically-based differences in hearing sensitivity at higher and lower volumes; the so-called equal-loudness curves. A second, however, is to introduce such compensation in a manner that has a pleasing taper; i.e., the "right amount" of compensation for each volume-pot setting. The cap value spotlights what portion of the upper spectrum bypasses the attenuation provided by the pot, and the added resistor alters how much of that treble content is introduced at each volume setting.

Some of us, though, don't aim for a perfectly balanced/compensated volume pot, as much as using the volume pot as a tone-shaping effect in itself. So, using a slightly higher-value bypass cap without any accompanying fixed resistor, can get you an accentuated treble at volume settings around 6-7, by preserving all that treble and essentially turning the bass down. It's almost like lifting not only the tone pot but the volume pot too...except just for the high end. But then I'm one of those guys who likes things like Aphex Aural Exciters, Nile Rodgers, Johnny Guitar Watson's "ice pick in the forehead" tone, and such; über-crisp. That's what I meant by my tongue in cheek comment about mosquitos.

3) Possible that the 'x' is not an 'x', but is something with an x through it, to represent opposite phase?

[RobRed]

Hey, thanks a ton! I'm not sure, but I suspect I would not be crazy about the ice pick in the forehead. I play mostly modern, fusion-oriented jazz (Metheny, DiMeola, and Mike Stern are among my favorites; I have many other influences, but that is the sort of thing I play most of the time). At times I get crazy and go metal, depending on my mood, but I can get all the harsh tones I want with my PodXT. I'm really looking for a variety of clearly defined, relatively clean tones to mess around with for the most part, and again, a big part of this is just an adventure into getting the vocabulary and an understanding of how things can go together aside from what you get from the manufacturers.

As I sort through the Fender S1, 3 single coil schematic, I'll see if where the X's are looks like a phase reversal. After I put up that last note, it struck me right in the face that the BT and NT stand for bridge tone and neck tone pots as having influence on those particular settings.

[Mark Hammer]

My first electric was a Kent identical to this one. Honest to god, I can't remember what any of those various switch combinations sounded like. Sometimes simple is best.

[RobRed]

My first electric was a Kent, too. My Dad got it for me one Christmas at Woolworth's (that's a long time ago now!). Mine was much simpler as I recall it--I think a volume and 2 tone controls. Otherwise it looked just about the same. I haven't got a clue whatever happened to it.

I really came back to report I am thoroughly pathetic. Here you've come back with simplicity, and I am just shooting for a diffierent brand of more complicated. ;} I was investigating the S1 switch on line again after we last communicated and had the good fortune to find a site where the great majority of contributors had had bad experience with it--it reportedly breaks down readily for many or doesn't function reliably to begin with--and the component wired into it that I was wondering about is a capacitor, and guess what--that capacitor pops like crazy!

With that, it made it easy--I've given up on the S1 switch. However, as luck would have it, on the same page, I found a happy and satisfied reference by one contributor to Deaf Eddie's (It's curious. I already had reason to bring up something unrelated I found on Deaf Eddie's site earlier today) Chromocaster switching as being a nearly ideal replacement for the S1 switch. He basically created a system using a standard 5-way switch in conjunction with a 6 position rotary switch to produce 17 or 18 different tones on an HSS guitar.

Of course, finding that, I had to go for it. The problem is, I already have one rotary switch going into this as my capacitor selector, so if I put in a second rotary switch, at first glance I thought either I'd have no room for a volume pot or no room for the tone pot that I need to control the signal through the capacitor selector. Somehow instead of my mind going to the obvious (stacked concentric pots), I jumped to wonder if there was any such thing as a stacked concentric rotary switch! Well, there is, and apparently you can get them with however many decks, positions, and poles you want within reason (I'd have wanted 2 decks, 6 positions on each, and 2 poles). The problem is there was only one site listed on line that sells them, and it looks like they're one of those companies that only does wholesale business with manufacturers and maybe the military. I'm not at all sure they are going to want to know about some guy (namely, me) that wants to buy one item to stick it in a guitar.

Well, I called to find out. I had to leave a message and I have yet (about 4 hours later) to receive a return call. So I got wondering about just going back to my first, simpler plan with the super switch and the rotary capacitor selector as the primary features, and then it hit me in the face, and I had to say to myself, "You dummy, you don't need a stacked concentric rotary switch (which probably takes up scads of space)--you need a stacked concentric pot to use for the volume control and the tone control." With my pickups (including the humbucker), 250K's are recommended by the manufacturer, so this stacked pot is scrawny. To make this new plan work, I had to order an ordinary Strat 5-way switch (I'll find some use for the super switch on a future project), a second rotary switch, and the stacked pot with the stacked knob for it, but I think I'll end up with something more workable and user friendly than the S1 switch idea. I'll have the 5-way switch, the stacked pots for volume and tone control, one rotary switch for the Chromacaster set-up, and a second rotary switch for the capacitor selector. It should all fit nice and tidy, and Deaf Eddie gives very clear instructions on line for wiring it all up, so I can stop studying scads of schematics, trying to figure the S1 switch out. Now I just have to find six 1M resistors to stick in the capacitor selector, and I'll be all set! Like I said, I'm getting pathetic.

Rob R

[Tommorichards]

Sounds like you are finding your way to a truly modified guitar.

on regards to the stacked rotary switch, if it was this one (right)


Its known as a 4p6t (4 poles, 6 throw). And although it has 2 "layers", they operate as one big switch, you cant operate them separately. I use them as an alternative to the expensive fender super switch.

And if it isnt, ignore above.

[big_teee]

Sounds like you are finding your way to a truly modified guitar.

on regards to the stacked rotary switch, if it was this one (right)


Its known as a 4p6t (4 poles, 6 throw). And although it has 2 "layers", they operate as one big switch, you cant operate them separately. I use them as an alternative to the expensive fender super switch.

And if it isnt, ignore above.

Where do you get the 6 way switch.
I found a 5 way, for $11.95, but not the 6 way.
Terry

[Tommorichards]

I simply googled 4p6t, and found this picture.

Lucky for you.... its Stewmac
STEWMAC.COM : Rotary Switches

[RobRed]

The problem is to use the 2 deck rotary switch for my purpose, I had to be able to control the decks separately, that is I needed the stacked, concentric version of this switch. One level is to take part in pickup selection and the other in cap selection, so they can't be controlled with one shaft/knob. I ended up getting two separate 6 position, 2 pole switches and instead ordered stacked pots for volume and tone control. Getting back to a former discussion today, now I am losing the no load capacity of the tone pot, though. I guess you can't get everything you want!

Rob R

[Dezzy]

1) I said it in 1979 ( http://hammer.ampage.org/files/Device1-12.PDF ), and I'll say it again here: figure out which half dozen or so sounds are most important to you, and leave it at that. All the exotic combinations can often result in far less return on investment than you might think, once the volume gets cranked.

2) If the guitar has 3 controls (vol, tone, tone), adapt one of the tone controls for the front pickup, and the other for the middle and bridge, or simply the bridge alone.

I think U got it spot in in number (2) like, I love my deluxe for a couple of reasons, main one is, I can turn down the tone a bit on the bridge pickup, which U can not do on a standard ( and it beats me why U can not do it like ) as if you roll off a bit tone on the bridge pup, U get that lovely twang for country, but without the ice pick, I think it is one of the deluxe strats best features, wish they would do it to all their guitars, I am rewiring my std strat to do this, because otherwise the bridge is just to bright like.