Lower volume in switch positions 2 & 4

[GaryR125]

I bought an inexpensive Ibanez GSA 60 (SSH) that I like, but I've noticed that the volume in switch positions 2 & 4 is lower than the other three, perhaps by 30-50%. I've adjusted everything I can think of, and the wiring is close to the generic diagram on the Ibanez site.

The middle pickup is one wire to the middle switch pole, the other to the volume pot body, so nothing unusual there.

I thought maybe one of you smart guys would recognize this condition and have a suggestion, because I can't figure it out.

thanks, Gary

[big_teee]

When in Posistion 2 & 4 you are playing 2 pickups in parallel and You always have some reduced volume.
30-50% is probably too much. Which makes me think the Phase is wrong on the middle pickup.
Try switching the wires for middle pickup.
You will have to feed the black and ground the white or yellow wire.
Temporarily try that and see what you get.
Good Luck,
Terry

[GaryR125]

Great! I'm not sure I understand what phase is in a loop of wire, but I'll give it a try and report back.
Thanks, Gary

[jmaf]

Does 60hz noise get cancelled in positions 2 and 4?

[big_teee]

Great! I'm not sure I understand what phase is in a loop of wire, but I'll give it a try and report back.
Thanks, Gary

It is a coil (loop) of wire.
What changes things, is when you put the magnet in the loop.
Now on a single coil if you feed the coil with the magnet South up, You have one polarity.
If you turn the magnet North up you have a different polarity.
If you have 3 Single coils and all are South up, all is In phase.
Now if you turn the magnet on the middle North up You have them out of phase in posistion 2 & 4.
So to get RWRP(Reverse Wound Reverse Polarity) The middle pickup has to have the magnet north up and feed the coil (loop) the opposite direction.
You have a Humbucker thrown in the mix, which is similar.
When you select the pickups one at a time phase doesn't matter, only when you play 2 in Parallel.
Hopefully I didn't confuse you to bad!
Good Luck,
Terry

[jmaf]

So to get RWRP(Reverse Wound Reverse Polarity) The middle pickup has to have the magnet north up and feed the coil (loop) the opposite direction.

Pardon the newbie question, I'm not much of a pickup guy. But do they invert both the magnet AND the coil in the middle pickup? Or do they invert just the magnets?

Reason I ask is I think if you invert both, the noise picked up will be in the same phase as the strings.....I think to block noise pickup and not strings you only invert one, either the coil or the magnet, no?

[big_teee]

Does 60hz noise get cancelled in positions 2 and 4?

You invert both.
With RWRP you do have very good 60hz cancellation in pos. 2 & 4.
When Fender started the RWRP.
They had Bridge and Neck were wound Clockwise South Magnet end up.
Middle Pickup was wound Counter Clockwise North Magnet end up.
Terry

[GaryR125]

Big_Teee - you were right. Reversing the wires from the middle pickup fixed the volume in position 2. I reversed the two leads from the bridge and it helped a bit, but I left the shield ground alone. This makes me recall the right-hand rule about current flow and magnetic fields from college physics.

To jmaf - the polarity of the pickups don't have anything to do with the frequency of vibration in the strings. It's related to the north-south orientation of the magnet to the polarity of the induced current in the coil adjacent to it. Reversing either the north-south or wiring polarity will reverse it, relative to it's unchanged neighbor pickup.

Thanks for your help.
Gary

[big_teee]

Big_Teee - you were right. Reversing the wires from the middle pickup fixed the volume in position 2. I reversed the two leads from the bridge and it helped a bit, but I left the shield ground alone. This makes me recall the right-hand rule about current flow and magnetic fields from college physics.

To jmaf - the polarity of the pickups don't have anything to do with the frequency of vibration in the strings. It's related to the north-south orientation of the magnet to the polarity of the induced current in the coil adjacent to it. Reversing either the north-south or wiring polarity will reverse it, relative to it's unchanged neighbor pickup.

Thanks for your help.
Gary

Glad I was able to help.
Sounds like you are well on your way!
Rock On!
Terry

[jmaf]

You invert both.
With RWRP you do have very good 60hz cancellation in pos. 2 & 4.
When Fender started the RWRP.
They had Bridge and Neck were wound Clockwise South Magnet end up.
Middle Pickup was wound Counter Clockwise North Magnet end up.
Terry

Thanks. The reason I asked earlier was to try and find out whether he had the middle pickup inverted. He has now confirmed it wasn't. I'm not sure this inverted configuration is ideal in a SSH setup...don't you think he now has the middle pickup inverted with regards to the humbucker?

Maybe in a SSH config he should invert the first pickup, not the middle one?

[big_teee]

Thanks. The reason I asked earlier was to try and find out whether he had the middle pickup inverted. He has now confirmed it wasn't. I'm not sure this inverted configuration is ideal in a SSH setup...don't you think he now has the middle pickup inverted with regards to the humbucker?

Maybe in a SSH config he should invert the first pickup, not the middle one?

It's all a big variable.
A Three Single Coil Guitar can all be in phase and not be hum canceling.
All Middle pickups aren't automatically RWRP.
It all has to be setup that way.
All the old fenders 3 SC Guitars had no hum canceling.
Some of the old timers still say that their strats sound better without hum canceling.
I've experimented both ways, and I Like the RWRP Middle Pickup.
To Have RWRP the middle pickup has to be the reverse polarity pickup in a 3 pickup guitar.
If neck and bridge are south, the middle needs to be north.
If neck and bridge are north, then the middle needs to be South.
The neck and bridge have to be the same polarity for the middle RWRP to work correctly.
It doesn't matter if the bridge is Humbucker or single coil, The bridge still needs to be the same polarity as the neck.
If the bridge is wrong polarity, all you have to do is loosen bobbin screws on the humbucker and turn the bar magnet around.
Life gets more complicated when you Throw the Humbucker in the mix.
Good Luck,
Rock Steady!
Terry

[jmaf]

Thanks for that. I thought every Strat was like that(hum cancelling at 2 & 4). What was SRV's Strat like? That tone in Lenny, is his middle one RWRP?

[big_teee]

Thanks for that. I thought every Strat was like that(hum cancelling at 2 & 4). What was SRV's Strat like? That tone in Lenny, is his middle one RWRP?

I've read that SRV #1 was a 1963 Strat.
That was before the CBS Buyout of Fender.
Unless someone changed the Configuration of the guitar #1 should not have had RWRP Hum canceling.
Lenny was played on a Red Strat that was repainted and a different neck put on the guitar.
The sound of Lenny was played on Pos. 4 (Neck and Middle).
You can get that quack sound with or without RWRP.
Not sure what causes it, but it is more pronounced with low wind Single Coils.
Usually the Neck and middle are lower wound, so when you play neck and middle in Parallel You really hear the Quack Sound.
I agree, It really sounded great on Lenny!
Long Live Rock!
Terry

[jmaf]

I've read that SRV #1 was a 1963 Strat.
That was before the CBS Buyout of Fender.
Unless someone changed the Configuration of the guitar #1 should not have had RWRP Hum canceling.
Lenny was played on a Red Strat that was repainted and a different neck put on the guitar.
The sound of Lenny was played on Pos. 4 (Neck and Middle).
You can get that quake sound with or without RWRP.
Not sure what causes it, but it is more pronounced with low wind Single Coils.
Usually the Neck and middle are lower wound, so when you play neck and middle in Parallel You really hear the Quake Sound.
I agree, It really sounded great on Lenny!
Long Live Rock!
Terry

Today I learned it's called a quake sound I realised it was pos. 4, but on my American Standard it doesn't come even close(mine is RWRP).