Guitar bridges too high

[ERowe]

Hey. I'm currently having a problem with two guitars and their bridges. I both cases, the bridge is set as low as is possible, but is still too high and causing very high action above the 12th frets. Both are guitar kits (self assembled).

One bridge is a PRS style wraparound bridge while the other is a Gibson style stop tail bridge.

I have been looking for lower profile bridges, they do exist, but i'm not convinced that they would work either.

Would it be a stupid idea to route the holes for the bridge posts a few mm deeper?

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[David Schwab]

Are these bolt on necks? You need to shim the neck. This is very common, and done on a many bolt on neck guitars.

You can start with something a piece of a matchbook or business card, or thing wood or plastic like a credit card. Just cut a piece wide enough to sit in the neck pocket closest to the body end (i.e., towards the bridge, and not the end of the neck pocket). This will increase the neck angle and lower the action. You may need to add another layer, or somethng thicker, and then you might have to raise the bridge if the strings are too low.




Here's a factory installed shim in a Fender.

[Chuck H]

+++ And with such nice illustration.

I always have an aversion to using cardboard. I know it's mice nuts but I think about how much surface contact (vibration transfer?) is lost by shimming. To avoid any additional loss I use harder materials. A strip of door skin or hard plastic usually. Whether it helps or not it puts my mind at ease that I've done the best I can.

[big_teee]

Also it may just need a little more tension on the Truss Rod.
I agree Chuck, on putting mind at ease.
You go to all that trouble to remove the paint to have perfect contact, then jack it up on one end where its not even touching.
Rock On!
Terry

[FunkyKikuchiyo]

How much setup experience do you have? You could just have too much relief in the neck. It is pretty common if you do'nt have an experienced eye for it to have way more relief than is necessary.

[big_teee]

How much setup experience do you have? You could just have too much relief in the neck. It is pretty common if you do'nt have an experienced eye for it to have way more relief than is necessary.

So what is the cure!
Are you talking more tension on the Truss Rod?
A lot of us here, Don't talk the Guitar Shop Lingo.
Please be basic for the rest of us.
Thanks,
Terry

[David Schwab]

+++ And with such nice illustration.

I always have an aversion to using cardboard. I know it's mice nuts but I think about how much surface contact (vibration transfer?) is lost by shimming. To avoid any additional loss I use harder materials. A strip of door skin or hard plastic usually. Whether it helps or not it puts my mind at ease that I've done the best I can.

Nothing is lost. The cardboard is not absorbing vibrations, how could it? The whole mass is vibrating together. It's been done that way for years, and works fine. Fender even did the microtilt adjust, where it was sitting on a screw. Plus the four neck bolts, and the sides of the neck, are coupling the whole thing together.

If you really want to get fancy, make an angled wooden shim on a belt sander.

There's no need to worry about paint, but you don't want a sloppy fit.

[David Schwab]

And?
Don't just give us the problem, also give us the cure!
Are you talking more tension on the Truss Rod?
Not everyone here talks the Lingo.
Please be basic for all of us.
Terry

Tighten the rod until the neck is almost totally straight. I use very little relief, but everyone has a preference.

[Chuck H]

Nothing is lost. The cardboard is not absorbing vibrations, how could it? The whole mass is vibrating together.

Mount a neck on a flat slab of rubber and let me know how that theory holds up. If "the whole mass is vibrating together" means that all vibrations are transferred throughout the mass then why do we use shock absorbers on cars?

It's been done that way for years, and works fine.

Agreed. But is "fine" as good as we can do?

Plus the four neck bolts, and the sides of the neck, are coupling the whole thing together.

Dunno about the sides. Being as the neck can be slipped in and out of the pocket I'm not counting on much vibration transfer from the sides.

Look, I sure don't want to get into it with you again. We're both smart. It'll go on way too long. Let's agree to disagree.

[Mandopicker]

It seems to me that the only reason to ever use a shim is when the neck angle is imperfect or deficient in some way. Though the shim does work, yet perhaps not "perfectly," it is a better solution that scraping a bunch of bodies. Leo would have never done that.

Again, its not ideal, but what else can be done short of major surgery.

My bet is that most people cannot tell the sonic difference.

And...keep in mind that you can probably find shims a lot of vintage, high-dollar, pre-CBS Fenders. They are still worth a lot on money and sound great.

[Chuck H]

I'm always happy as hell when I DON'T need to use a shim. It usually happens on old Tiesco's, cheap kits and the like. Could I hear a difference? Maybe not. And to be fair, could I hear a difference between a cardboard shim and a wooden one? Probably not. But I'm not going to find out either.

Once when I was a teenager I used a cardboard shim under an acoustic guitar bridge and absolutely heard the negative effect. The way I see it the effect is the same in this application. Though certainly far less profound.

[ERowe]

Thanks for your responses

One of the neck is bolt - on so i'll try the shim with that one. The other guitar's neck is glued in however. That'll need another solution. The necks are perfectly straight in both cases so the truss rods do not need to be touched.I've attached too pictures of the guitar with the glues on neck.

[spud1950]

That first picture shows exactly whats going on. The bridge should not be slanting down toward the front like that. It should be at the same level,front and back. The back is up way too high. Unfortunately,these kits usually come with very substandard hardware. You need to get a better quality bridge.

[Chuck H]

Yes, it's a little sloppy. They do all slant a little though. If they didn't the fit would be so tight as to prohibit adjustment. Thats a clunky bridge. I had a Gibson with a very similar bridge and I remember wanting to change it. I wasn't able to find a different system that would mate up with the existing holes. But that was a long time ago. If David is still reading this thread he may know of a good retrofit with a lower profile.

[David Schwab]

Mount a neck on a flat slab of rubber and let me know how that theory holds up. If "the whole mass is vibrating together" means that all vibrations are transferred throughout the mass then why do we use shock absorbers on cars?

Were we taking about rubber? No one was talking about rubber. That's a poor example. And it's not a theory.

In fact you have those Bunker designed necks where the wood of the neck doesn't even support the strings. The tension of the strings is supported on a steel bar running into the body from the head to the bridge. But the wood from the neck isn't robbing any vibrations. Any really, you don't want it to vibrate much because that robs energy from the strings, and you end up with something like a banjo. Lots of acoustic output, and little sustain. An acoustic guitar is somewhere in the middle.

The neck just needs to be stiff and support the strings. There's no reason to worry about transferring vibrations. Where is it transferring to and from?

Agreed. But is "fine" as good as we can do?

As I said, you can also do the tapered wooden shim like Dan Erlewine does. But go ahead and try it and tell me if you hear a difference. You can have the neck supported on four bolts and not even touching the body, and everything will work fine.

Dunno about the sides. Being as the neck can be slipped in and out of the pocket I'm not counting on much vibration transfer from the sides.

Look, I sure don't want to get into it with you again. We're both smart. It'll go on way too long. Let's agree to disagree.

Well I meant a good tight pocket. But if the neck touches the sides it will transfer vibrations. How would it not? It's not just transferring vibrating up and down. Is it?

It has nothing to do with disagreeing. It's about how things work. There are no vibrations being transferred, but the strings are vibrating, and they also vibrate the the guitar. But that's a by product and not what you are going for with a solid body guitar. They have more sustain because the energy from the strings is not being converted to acoustic energy.