Gretsch tone switch circuit mod suggestions, please

[picknconk]

Hi Kids,
I know there's a Gretsch forum, but you guys are more fun and smarter. I don't think ANY Gretsch wiring harness makes sense to me. I've got a Double Anniversary, with the tone switch circuit. Three volumes, a tone switch, and a pickup selector ain't it. I've cut a big hole in the back of the guitar, using the Gretsch-style cover plate, so I can haul out the guts and work on it with it still strung up. Surely there must be a way to make the master volume a tone control?? Help, you smart folks. Factory originality means nothing to me...Bob I should mention the pickups are single coil Hi Lo Trons which I like just fine, but I gotta have at least one tone pot. I'll fuss with the cap values on the tone switch, and I'll even drill holes for a pot if someone shows me I need to...

[Phostenix]

I'm sure what you want can be done, but I'm not that familiar with Gretsch guitars so I'll need more info.

Are the pickups 2 wire? Braided shield & inner conductor?

Where are the current controls located on the guitar?

Is the tone switch a toggle switch?

What kind of switch is the 3-way toggle?

Can you post pics of what you've got?


Is this what you want?

3-Way toggle with:

Down - Bridge Pickup
Middle - Both Pickups
Up - Neck Pickup

Independent volume for the Bridge pup
Independent volume for the Neck pup

Master tone pot

Tone switch

[picknconk]

TV Jones sells harnesses, and would be the place to look for am image of what it looks like. What I'm interested in is converting the Master volume, located at the cutaway to a master tone, leaving the two volumes at the lower bout as they are. In the upper bass bout are the two toggle switches, pickup selector, normal in it's wiring, and the Tone switch, which is what gives this harness it's name. It's function is..one position is mud, center position is straight through, other position is somewhat rolled off. That I will re cap myself, listening to the results as I go. It's conceivable that I may be happy with just that, but I doubt it. My wish is to convert the Master Volume to Master tone. I don't have the guitar here, as it's being restored, but Gretsch used three conductor wiring usually, not braid covered. Since I'm having an access hole cut in the back, everything will be easy to get at without disturbing the pickups all the time. It also has the back pad, covering the plate that covers the hole. I am not skilled at sending pics, even if I had the guitar here, but diagrams and schematics are all over the net, Tone Switch Circuit is the I.D. for this rig. Single coil pups. Thanks for any help. It could be as easy as throwing a cap across the pot, as it's always in the circuit, but that sounds too easy, and while I can solder and build anything, I get bamboozled by creating diagrams, crazy as it sounds. In other words,....yes, to what you asked...Bob

[Phostenix]

TV Jones sells harnesses, and would be the place to look for am image of what it looks like.

Can you provide a link?

[picknconk]

All I know how to do is go to Google and punch in TV Jones wiring Harnesses . I don't know how to post a link the way you request it, sorry. Also, if you go to Ebay and look at Gretsch Double Anniversary guitars, you'll see the exact layout..Bob

[Phostenix]

I don't know how to post a link the way you request it, sorry.

Just copy the url from the address bar of your browser and paste it into your post here. The forum will take care of the rest.


I found a small pic on the TV Jones site of their wiring harness, but it's hard to tell how the separate volumes are wired. You're right that if this harness is wired "typically", you should be able to mod the master volume to become a master tone. I'd just like to be sure of how they have it wired before I tell you what I think you should do.



But, here's my guess without seeing it:


One terminal (I'll refer to it as terminal 1) of the master volume should have a wire that goes to ground or the lug is bent back & soldered to the case of the pot. Desolder that connection and leave terminal 1 with nothing connected to it.

The middle terminal (the wiper of the pot - terminal 2) should have a wire that connects to the output jack. Desolder that wire and connect it to the 3rd terminal of the master volume pot (which should be connected to the pickup selector switch). You should have both wires connected to terminal 3 - the wire coming from the 3-way pickup selector and the wire to the output jack.

Then, connect one end of your new tone cap to terminal 2 and then connect the other end of the cap to ground (usually the back of the pot).

[picknconk]

You are exactly right according to the schematic. I'll try it as soon as I get the guitar back,..Thanks..Bob

[Phostenix]

Another way to rewire is to leave the output jack connected to the wiper and move the wire from the 3-way pickup selector switch from terminal 3 over to the wiper also (terminal 2 in the middle).

Then, you would desolder the ground connection to terminal 1 and put the tone cap between terminal 1 and ground.

It's 6 of one, half dozen of the other, but wired this way you could use a no load tone pot if you wanted. Just another option.

[picknconk]

Could you explain the "no load" pot in more detail? The other way looks like 50's wiring, which I've always thought to be better, more interactive. Is that what you mean, maybe less interactive?..Thanks, I've got options to try, but I like to understand as best I can...Bob
Since they are two different approaches, I don't see it as 6 of one Half a dozen of the other...they are different, so they will work differently. This is very interesting. I will have one killer guitar if I get my cap values balanced, don't you think? Unless you hate Gretsches, of course!

[Phostenix]

On the Fender no load pot, when you turn the knob fully clockwise, the wiper is disconnected from the circuit so the tone cap and the resistance of the pot are removed from the circuit - they don't load the guitar signal at all.

I don't know if the threaded bushing of the Fender pots is long enough to mount in your guitar, but any pot can be modified to be a no load pot. There are numerous instructions & videos for DIY no load pots on the internets.

I made a couple of videos of the Fender pots:

[Phostenix]

Since they are two different approaches, I don't see it as 6 of one Half a dozen of the other...they are different, so they will work differently.

You won't hear any difference between the 2 ways I gave you to wire it. They are just 2 ways to achieve the same thing. But, if you (or someone else reading this thread somewhere down the line) wanted a no load pot, the 2nd way is how it would need to be wired.

A no load tone just gives you the ability to get a little more brightness or edge when the tone pot is turned all the way up. If your pickups are already bright and you never turn the tone pot all the way up, you'd never use the no load pot.

This is very interesting. I will have one killer guitar if I get my cap values balanced, don't you think? Unless you hate Gretsches, of course!

I like Gretsch guitars, but I've never owned one.

[Phostenix]

You are exactly right according to the schematic.

Is that schematic available online? I don't see it on the TV Jones site.

[picknconk]

Yes, go to Tech Specs, on the Jones site, then Tone Switch schematic and there it is nice and big. I wanna go with the cap across the wiper way, as it looks like the 50's style wiring I prefer. I also asked T V Jones and Mr. Jones offered the second method as well. Here's my real important new question....After you look at the schematic, and I do the cap in the middle lug, nothing where the tab was grounded method, isn't the tone switch in parallel with the pot? If so, what I would do is put a .015 on the pot(Bright), .0082 one one side of the switch(.0232uf), and a .03 on the other side(.045uf) since caps in parallel are cumulative, the caps on the switch will add to whatever is on the pot. If that switch is in series, I'll have to rethink the whole shebang. Lemme know, you've been a great help.

[Phostenix]

Here's a link to the wiring diagram:

http://www.tvjones.com/tech_specs/te...ONE-SWITCH.pdf

[Phostenix]

Yes, the existing tone switch is parallel to the now Master Volume/soon to be Master Tone pot. You can change the existing caps on the tone switch to try your values.

Here's a simplified drawing of just the changes that need to be made to the Master Volume pot to convert it to a Master Tone pot: