Noise: Single Coils vs Computers

[KenB]

I play an Anderson Classic and recently installed a set of vintage single coils ... the middle pickup is not RWRP. Hum is acceptable in all pickup combinations ... but I just can't tolerate the noise the pickups pickup from my recording computer (yes, I am absolutely sure the source of the noise is the computer ... and not cables, ground loops, other grounding issues, monitors, lighting, sun spots etc. etc.). The guitar shielding is the standard Anderson fare ... conductive paint in the cavity and aluminum foil on the control area of the pick guard.

Seems there are 4 options ...

1. Live with the noise and either go nuts or give up guitar all together
2. Fully shield the pick guard
3. Shield the pickup bobbins
4. Transition to a noiseless pickup design

My question is ... in cases where single coil pickups pickup noise hash from computers ... will fully shielding the pick guard and/or shielding the pickup bobbins ... effectively reduce the noise?

Not looking for here-say ... looking for an answer based on experience from someone that has actually dealt with this problem.

Thanks!

KenB

[big_teee]

I play an Anderson Classic and recently installed a set of vintage single coils ... the middle pickup is not RWRP. Hum is acceptable in all pickup combinations ... but I just can't tolerate the noise the pickups pickup from my recording computer (yes, I am absolutely sure the source of the noise is the computer ... and not cables, ground loops, other grounding issues, monitors, lighting, sun spots etc. etc.). The guitar shielding is the standard Anderson fare ... conductive paint in the cavity and aluminum foil on the control area of the pick guard.

Seems there are 4 options ...

1. Live with the noise and either go nuts or give up guitar all together
2. Fully shield the pick guard
3. Shield the pickup bobbins
4. Transition to a noiseless pickup design

My question is ... in cases where single coil pickups pickup noise hash from computers ... will fully shielding the pick guard and/or shielding the pickup bobbins ... effectively reduce the noise?

Not looking for here-say ... looking for an answer based on experience from someone that has actually dealt with this problem.

Thanks!

KenB

I feel your pain.
I have a similar situation in my bedroom.
I have a metal desk with computer, dsl modem, wireless modem,wireless Phone, and ceiling fan and 4 small fluorescent bulbs.
Even my Humbucker guitars make some noise.
I have an advantage though I make Pickups.
So I use a regular RWRP pickup in the middle.
I use my version of a rail Humbucker pickup in the neck position.
It is around 5.4k and sounds pretty stratty!
For the bridge, I either use another blade pickup, or use a full sized humbucker.
To get more strat sounds I installed a small DPDT mini switch.
It is to ground and tap the neck and bridge humbucker.
When tapped, the guitar is like a regular strat with 3 single coils with hum canceling in pos. 2 & 4.
Here's what it looks like.

You can shield and mess around til the cows come home, nothing works but humbuckers.
These blades are very quiet.
The problem with most commercial blades is that they make them too hot, and they lose the low wound sound.
Good Luck,
Terry
** Forgot to add, that the Single coil in the middle is crucial.
With it you can still get the quake sound, in pos. 2 & 4.
If you put another blade in the middle you lose the quake sound that is so important to Strats.

[rjb]

Forgot to add, that the Single coil in the middle is crucial.
With it you can still get the quake sound, in pos. 2 & 4.
If you put another blade in the middle you lose the quake sound that is so important to Strats.

Just to be sure I'm catching your drift:
Would a blade *single coil* in the middle do the quack thang?
Or does it have to have individual poles for some reason?

-rb

[big_teee]

Just to be sure I'm catching your drift:
Would a blade *single coil* in the middle do the quack thang?
Or does it have to have individual poles for some reason?

-rb

That has been my experience with it.
You must have the single coil in the middle if you want the quack thang in position 2 & 4.
It also helps if it is medium to high mounted.
Not mounted real low to the pickguard.
This is the sound I was trying to get.
Dire Straits - Once Upon A Time In The West (1979) (Remaster w/Lyrics) [720p HD] ~ORIGINAL VIDEO~ - YouTube
You can't get that Knopfler Tone with 3 buckers.
It may have something to do with the individual Single Coil magnets.
In the Single Coil, I use A5s at full strength, so each mag, is probably 1000-1200 Gauss, or so.
Good Luck,
T

[rjb]

You must have the single coil in the middle if you want the quack thang in position 2 & 4.
...
You can't get that Knopfler Tone with 3 buckers.

I remember when "Sultans of Swing" came out & everyone saying "what the hell is that sound?".
Back when Strats used a 3 position switch & you had to jam in a flatpick to hold it at "2-1/2".
OK, now back to our regularly scheduled program.
-rb

[David Schwab]

You can't get that Knopfler Tone with 3 buckers.
It may have something to do with the individual Single Coil magnets.

That's not true at all.

I just finished the rest of the pickups in my Charvel. I have two dual blade single coil size humbuckers and a regular size dual blade humbucker at the bridge. I get a great quack on 2 and 4.

That's also not such an important sound, and can get annoying real quick. It's good for certain funk tones and that's about it.

First you hear neck and middle (both humbuckers) and then middle and bridge (both humbuckers).
http://www.sgd-lutherie.com/media/2_and_4_hb_strat.mp3

The trick is to wind bright humbuckers. It has noting to do with the magnets. If the pickups don't have enough top end you won't get it. My bridge pickup is also very bright:

http://www.sgd-lutherie.com/media/strat_bridge_pu.mp3

[big_teee]

Glad it worked for you, it didn't for me.
I could not get that sound I was looking for.
I even had the middle pickup where I could switch polarity.
sounded more like a regular humbucker guitar.
Are you splitting the middle, that might work.
I was leaving them all in humbucker mode all same polarity.
I tried it all different ways, I liked it best with a SC in the middle.
Thats why we have all kinds, all configurations, and we can pick what we like best.
T

[David Schwab]

Glad it worked for you, it didn't for me.
I could not get that sound I was looking for.
I even had the middle pickup where I could switch polarity.
sounded more like a regular humbucker guitar.
Are you splitting the middle, that might work.
I was leaving them all in humbucker mode all same polarity.
I tried it all different ways, I liked it best with a SC in the middle.
Thats why we have all kinds, all configurations, and we can pick what we like best.
T

With humbuckers the magnetic polarity makes no difference, since you are hearing the composite signal from both coils. That tone has nothing to do with magnetic polarity either. The old Strats that didn't have RWRP middle pickups, and it still worked. RWRP is a fairly recent thing. Nothing in my recording was split. The polarity also doesn't matter. On a strat all the pickup are the same polarity as far as the signal is concerned.

The problem is you are winding your pickups too hot. How many turns are you putting on them? If you have a single coil middle pickup, what's the point of having the others humbuckers? Mine would have sounded even more Straty, except I wound the middle pickup a little hotter than the neck pickup. So it has a little less high end. But that was the tone I was going for.

It worked for me because I made it work.

[big_teee]

I like them the way I have them.
You do things like you like them, & I will do the same.
There is no right or wrong way to configure and play pickups.
If you want 3 in a row, play 3 in a row.
If I want them configured different, that is my Privilege.
That is why I make pickups, to experiment with them.
This is my hobby, I'll do it the way I want to.
Good Luck,
T

[David Schwab]

I like them the way I have them. You do things like you like them, & I will do the same. There is no right or wrong way to configure and play pickups.
If you want 3 in a row, play 3 in a row. If I want them configured different, that is my Privilege. That is why I make pickups, to experiment with them. This is my hobby, I'll do it the way I want to. Good Luck, T

Well that's a defeatist attitude, isn't it? You came on here saying that they won't get that 2 & 4 quack tone because yours wont get it. And you stated that as a matter of fact. But it isn't. I showed you that you were mistaken.

I explained to you what you are probably doing wrong. But be my guest and keep doing it that way and saying they don't sound like Strat pickups, because yours don't. But don't say they don't work, because they do. Same thing with the Barden pickups. Go listen to some Danny Gatton and tell me they don't sound like single coils. You just have to wind them the right way. So I give you new some ideas to experiment with. HINT, you are over winding the pickups!

And saying it's a hobby; is that an excise for not getting good at something? Stop being defensive and you might learn something.

And what do I need luck with? I work hard at getting these to sound right. I rewound these about 5 times. No luck was involved.

By the way, I fixed your formatting. And why is "privilege" capitalized? is it someone's name? lol

[KenB]

Uhm ... back to the OP ... is there any further input re single coil noise caused by computers?

KenB

[rjb]

Uhm ... back to the OP ... is there any further input re single coil noise caused by computers?

By the time we're finished arguing over "quack", he could have shielded the cavity *and* the coils!

AFAIK, shielding *might* help with some computer generated RFI.
I'll yield to the sages to provide advice re: grounding the shields, shield continuity, avoiding the introduction of unwanted eddy currents, etc.

Later,
-rb

[David Schwab]

Uhm ... back to the OP ... is there any further input re single coil noise caused by computers?

KenB

If you don't want noise, you need hum canceling pickups. For Strats, you can also use some of the other types, such as the stacked pickups. I've recorded with the DiMarzio Virtual Vintage pickups, and they sound like single coils. Theres also the cool Hum Canceling Pickup Technology - Zexcoil Noise-less Guitar Pickups

All my guitars and basses have noise canceling pickups because I do a lot of recording.

[rjb]

If you don't want noise, you need hum canceling pickups.

I thought the (oversimplified) rule of thumb was humbuckers for magnetic noise, shielding for electrical noise.
Have you changed your opinion re: shielding and computer monitors?
Shielding a single coil

-rb

[David Schwab]

I thought the (oversimplified) rule of thumb was humbuckers for magnetic noise, shielding for electrical noise.
Have you changed your opinion re: shielding and computer monitors?
Shielding a single coil

-rb

Shielding a single coil pickup will not make it quiet, just quieter, especially around computers and the like. Next to my iMac is a Roland Digital mixer, which throws out its own noise. The only way I can get a quiet atmosphere to record is with shielded hum canceling pickups. So you need both.

I recently wound some single coil Jazz bass pickups. The only way I could get a semi quiet recording was by turning my body to reduce the noise, but even then the recordings are noisy. I had a customer here today that I have known for about 35 years. He was trying out some prototype Strat size humbuckers I made recently, and in his guitars uses Duncan rails. He said that one of the reasons he gets studio calls is because his guitars are quiet. The engineers hate when people come in with noisy pickups.