Modifying volume and tone pots

[tonequester]

mod pots

Sorry I don't know the kit. I like the idea of a gun blue finish though. I've been blueing my non stainless pocket knives since I was twelve. That and a wipe of oil now and again and they'll out perform almost any stainless pocket knife in normal use. Not too sure about wiping a chassis down with honing oil though

Just make the no load pot for your tone control. Regardless of what anyone has said it will not reduce the longevity or reliability of the pot. On most pots you just bend the tabs that hold the casing on the pot and lift it off, exposing the wiper and the resistance track. There is likely a defined margin where the track meets the resting tab that the wiper sits on when the pot is fully rotated. Be sure to identify the correct end of the track. Use an exacto blade turned backwards (you don't want to just cut the track, the gap needs to be a little wider than a cut) and scratch the track away where it meets the tab. Blow clean and test. Repeat as needed. Then put the back on and mark it with a sharpie (in case it ever ends up back in component circulation). You may want to include a 10M resistor from the center lug to the no load lug. Some effects do place a small DC charge on the line and this could cause a small pop sound if the cap doesn't keep a 0VDC reference.

tonequester here.

Greetings Chuck, Glad to hear that you are aquainted with this modification. I've "heard" about it for years and I'd like to think that it is plausible when
somebody like Gerald Weber includes it in one of his books. I appreciate the tip on the 10 Meg from center lug to no-load lug. I'm not a big-time effects user, but I so play around with some on occasion. It's good to know these little "extras", like the fact that some effects do place a DC charge on the line. First time that I ever gave that a thought. It sure was providence that led me to join this, my first forum. It sure has reinforced something that I learned as a young press operator, and had kinda' forgot about. All the textbooks in the world are no substitute for first hand knowlege ! I'm not anti-theory by any means, but without the experiments, without the experience,
theory becomes nothing more than something to talk about. This forum gives one both sides of the equation. For all I know you may well be a professor, angineer, or tech
but whether or not, I always know that yoiu have real world experience. I know that when somebody else goes a little over my head, I can always count on guys like you,
Enzo, loudthud,big_teee, and a dozen others to relate such things to me in a "common Man';s" lingo. As for the amp kit, I'm in hopes that I'll get some more comments.
I don't thimk that i'll get "stung" if I go with it, but I do know that it will only be a starter. Someone made the comment that "I should know that this is addictive". I've
had many obsessions in my life. Some were good and some were bad. Whether for the good or for the bad, there will probably be such a project on my work-bench on the
day I die. I will be doing much bigger and better things at that time, for having come across you and all the other guy's I dig, on this forum. Thanks, and all of the best to you and YOUR projects. tonequester.

Quote : 'I had to fight all of my life to survive. they were all against me....but I beat the bast____ and left them all in the ditch. Ty Cobb.

Another Quote : " Cobb was a pri--, but God, could that man hit" ! Babe Ruth.

Crude attempt at humor.

[Mark Hammer]

The value of the "no-load" option will depend on the pickups you start out with, and the tone style one normally adopts. It's prejudicial on my part, admittedly, but my sense is that someone playing a Kramer Strat is not typically aiming for a clean sound (i.e., you'd never see one in a Dire Straits cover band). In that vein, if one played something like an Ibanez JEM guitar with a pair of HBs and a SC in the middle, or if one like to always play with at least some dirt at the amp or pedal level, then the advantages of a no-load pot will be either minimal or non-existent. The rationale behind this declaration is simply that "unloading" the pickups mostly serves to retain top end glassiness, and if the pickups themselves can't deliver it, or if the tone you want does not make use of it, then there is no advantage to be gained.

FWIW, I like a glassy top end, so one of my guitars has a simple 3-position tone switch, instead of a tone pot, with the center position being no tone cap at all. Using that in conjunction with 1M volume pot and over-value compensation cap, it's instant Nile Rogers and Johnny Guitar Watson tone. Not everyone's cup of tea, though.

[tonequester]

tonequester here.


Greetings, and thanks Mark for your reply. You are correct in assuming that I'm not aiming for an exclusively clean tone. however, I would like to retain that option.
The cheap Kramer that I bought a year ago was purchased because after playing it for some time, I decided that it was perhaps totally by accident, a very good guitar. I,ve owned some high-end guitars before, although they were always factory issue, and the ACOUSTIC properties of the Kramer were quite surprising to me. After having repaired and modified guitars for 30+ years, I decided it would be a "hoot" to do as much of an upgrade to it as was possible. It's not the guitar that I purchased now. Quality tuners, saddles, fret work, new nut, 4 roller string trees, blocked tremelo, and the additioin of added mass to headstock and body are complete. The improvement gained thus far has set me back 3x the price that I gave for it originally.
I saved the best for last. I'm now going to completely replace all electronics. I've selected 3 very different pick-ups and a Q-filter to go along with quality pots and switches. The biggest problem the Kramer had was lack of tonal variety when amplified. I expect to have $500.00 plus, and around 25-30 hours of work in it when it is completed. I guess that I'm just saying that I enjoy the whole modding thing, whether it be guitars or amps. I've been lucky enough over the years to have oinly one "disaster" to my credit. I modded a vintage(back when it wasn't called vintage) Fender Princeton that was immaculate(circa 1960) and when it began to have problems a couple of years later, I merely scrapped it and bought a new amp. I still have bad dreams about that one ! No, I won't be doing a Dire Straits cover anytime soon, but I think that I'm going to be pleased with what I end up with. The whole tone pot thing was just something that I had read about many times over the years, and the use of it to get a little extra "clean" was the idea. I've decided to make the drop tone and the Q-filter switchable
so I'll still have "stock" tone controls. Steve Conner informed me about Fender drop out tone controls, so I don't even have to "jack" with them if I don't want to, as I can purchase the pots already modded. I'll take your(and others as well) opinion about how little the change is for fact. I've never come across a guitar that had the feature, so I truly am not in the know.
I'm most into blues/blues rock, but I also like a variety of other styles and I think that when I'm done with the "project' it will have a great blues tone and still play clean enough for the other things that i like to do. Man, I really appreciate your interest and especially the time you took to reply, and I always give all replys due thought, often comparing yea's to nay's to
help me come to a conclusion. I hope that whatever you are "up to" goes to plan, and you have my best reguards. tonequester.

[Sweetfinger]

Quote Originally Posted by Sweetfinger View Post
Where there's a will, there's a way.

No, when you get to 10 you will have no sound because the circuit is now open.

A no load pot works on a tone control because on 10 you want the circuit open.

Just get a push/pull pot and wire up the switch to take the volume control out of the circuit and wire the pickup to the jack.

Or get louder pickups.

Obviously, you do not have the will!

[rjb]

Where there's a will there's a way.

Oh, it'll work. You just have to think "outside the standard wiring diagram".

OK, I'll play. Here's my suggested mod:
Cut any track inside the volume pot in any manner you want; reassemble pot.
Jumper all three pot lugs together. Do not connect any lug to the pot's shell or cavity shield.
Solder "sig+ out" wire from selector switch and "sig+" wire from jack to any volume pot lug(s) you want.
Solder all "sig-/gnd" wires to volume pot shell.
Control volume at the amp.

Are you saying you have a mod that:
1) Removes the volume pot from the circuit at position 10;
2) Functions as a normal volume control below position 10?

If so, some members may like to see a schematic.
(Not me; I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.)

[Sweetfinger]

OK, I'll play. Here's my suggested mod:
Cut any track inside the volume pot in any manner you want; reassemble pot.
Jumper all three pot lugs together. Do not connect any lug to the pot's shell or cavity shield.
Solder "sig+ out" wire from selector switch and "sig+" wire from jack to any volume pot lug(s) you want.
Solder all "sig-/gnd" wires to volume pot shell.
Control volume at the amp.

Are you saying you have a mod that:
1) Removes the volume pot from the circuit at position 10;
2) Functions as a normal volume control below position 10?

If so, some members may like to see a schematic.
(Not me; I'm just playing Devil's Advocate.)

Good lord. Take yer Fender "no load" pot, ground the usual lug, wire up your Strat just like you would normally but jumper the first and second lugs of the pot. Instead of a voltage divider the volume control is now a variable resistor that removes itself from the circuit when all the way up due to the cut track.

[rjb]

Good lord. Take yer Fender "no load" pot, ground the usual lug, wire up your Strat just like you would normally but jumper the first and second lugs of the pot. Instead of a voltage divider the volume control is now a variable resistor that removes itself from the circuit when all the way up due to the cut track.

Tell ya what.
Wire it up, try it out, then get back to us.

[Sweetfinger]

Tell ya what.
Wire it up, try it out, then get back to us.

Did it 6 days ago before the first post just to be sure there wasn't some stupidly obvious reason it wouldn't work. There isn't. It works.

[rjb]

Did it 6 days ago before the first post just to be sure there wasn't some stupidly obvious reason it wouldn't work. There isn't. It works.

OK, gotcha, it finally sank in.
You're loading the pickup with a variable resistor.
But doesn't that really kill the highs when you lower the volume?
No more than in a JBass, I suppose.
Never mind.....

[Chuck H]

Just because I don't want the OP to get any kookie ideas... Doesn't the taper on the pot, as a control function, kinda suck when wired as a strictly variable load? This has been my experience.

Will repost... I'm going to work on something.

[tonequester]

tonequester here.


I guess one Can have the will to no avail ! Hey Sweetfinger ! Yea, I've got this one figured out now. The mod for tone pots will work, and now the argunent is : how much does the mod accomplish, and whether it shortens the life of the pot. Steve Conner steered me to factory made drop-out pots made by Fender. They are only a couple of bucks higher than
CTS standard pots. So it seems that for tone pots this isn't a problem as far as reliability is concerned. With my whole rig being maxed for an overdriven,warm tone, I figure that it can't hurt to try in order to retain as much clean tone as possible when I want it. A couple of bucks more : "nothing gained.....nothing lost. Thanks for the opinion. Thats what it's all about for me
on the forum anyway. To get as many opinions(and hopefully facts) as possible, is the quest. Have a "good 'un" ! tonequester.

[Chuck H]

OK... For anyone who want's to try it... Here is a way to wire a no load volume pot that should act like a normal volume pot anywhere but the fully cranked position (fully cranked = no load). I've done the demonstration diagram with a standard "strat" type wiring. If you want to add a "bright" cap or circuit it would be parallel to the B pot.

[Sweetfinger]

Just because I don't want the OP to get any kookie ideas... Doesn't the taper on the pot, as a control function, kinda suck when wired as a strictly variable load? This has been my experience.

Will repost... I'm going to work on something.

If you're the kind of person who has ordered every different pot from every different manufacturer in search of that "perfect" taper and has experimented for hours with added tapering resistors, you may be disappointed. It had a decent enough taper on the Fender pot. I've heard worse.
Volume controls wired as variable resistors have been used in amplifiers and effects pedals for decades so the taper must be at least acceptable. I never promised that this mod would be perfect. If it were a truly superior method of wiring a volume control in a guitar that's how they would all be wired. Personally, I think it is a bit goofy and there are indeed other ways to get where you want to go tone-wise.
I only posted because the OP wanted to try it and 2 or three other forum members chimed in saying it wasn't possible. You can do it, but you do change how the volume control responds and interacts with the other controls, pickups, etc. If you find that this is a useful way to wire your guitar, well, happy birthday! Other than that, it is one of those tricks you can file away until you need it, if ever.

[David Schwab]

There is no "amazing improvement" for a no load pot.
It's a slight treble boost if the tone pot is open. A slight amount...
you can scrape it, but later...you will replace it.

For a tone pot? Absolutely wrong. As a matter of fact I have them in several instruments, and also some TBX tone pots.

If you want that brighter tone why would you replace them?

[David Schwab]

OK... For anyone who want's to try it... Here is a way to wire a no load volume pot that should act like a normal volume pot anywhere but the fully cranked position (fully cranked = no load). I've done the demonstration diagram with a standard "strat" type wiring. If you want to add a "bright" cap or circuit it would be parallel to the B pot.

Well that's an interesting twist...