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Humbucker sterile sound when roll off the volume

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  • Humbucker sterile sound when roll off the volume

    Hi, i have a stagg LP style guitar with 2 humbuckers, the problem is when i roll off the volume pot, the sound of the pickups becom sterile, without life (i think this is the problem of almost all humbuckers).
    I was looking in youtube, and i found a guy that changes the pots and the electronics of his gibson LP custom, and now he can roll off the volume of his guitar and sound amazing!!

    Here it is:



    What can i do to fix this?

    Well, thanks a lot for your help!!!

    Regards

    Juan

  • #2
    Sterile is subjective. We have no clue what you are talking about.
    Maybe you can post recordings.
    other than that, how could we possibly know what you are talking about?
    This guy on u tube? Why don't you post a link?

    Comment


    • #3
      My guess:
      1 meg pot with a volume treble bleed resistor and cap.
      Click image for larger version

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      • #4
        I thought my bedroom had some Noise.
        I have Single Coil Strats, a lot quieter than that LP.
        Flourescent lights and all.
        Most of the tone you probably liked in that clip, is due to the Fender Twin Reverb, not necessarily the guitar.
        T


        "If Wishes Were Horses, Beggars Would Ride!" Scottish Proverb 1600s
        Terry

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        • #5
          Sorry if I was not very clear, the pickup that i have is a stock and very cheap also itīs very hot too, the problem is when i roll off the volume control, the guitar sound is i think, without trebles and without top end (the guitar donīt have the treable bleed circuit). I thought that as there are several people who think about humbucker sound is not as cool as a single coil when the volume roll off, i thought it was a general rule, maybe the problem is because is a cheap pickup....

          Here is Paul Gilbert talking about his pickups, Air classics, a paf like pickup, in this video in 3:42 Paul thalk about this:





          Thanks a lot

          Comment


          • #6
            Hot humbuckers never sound good turned down. The get muddy fast. Switching them into parallel helps for when you want a brighter cleaner tone.

            So does a treble bleed mod:

            Wiring Diagram
            It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


            http://coneyislandguitars.com
            www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

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            • #7
              Thanks David! iīm going to do that!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Sweet looking guitar in the video, what is it?
                "Enzo, I see that you replied parasitic oscillations. Is that a hypothesis? Or is that your amazing metal band I should check out?"

                Comment


                • #9
                  The other arrangement that some like to use to reduce this effect is '50's wiring' of the tone / vol pots.
                  Basically, the tones are wired from the vol pot wiper, rather than the hot track end / across the pickup.
                  I don't believe that there is a real improvement, rather that the tone controls become much less effective once the volume is turned down a little. So as long as the tone control is turned down some, it seems that treble gets lifted as the volume is turned down from max.
                  If the amp is set a bit more trebly, then the user perception is that there's no treble loss as the the guitar volume is rolled down, rather the treble increases, which often works better for a 'rhythm' tone, with the lead tone getting fatter with the guitar volume set to max.
                  Pete
                  My band:- http://www.youtube.com/user/RedwingBand

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                  • #10
                    The guitar, is the Ibanez, Paul Gilbert model, and thanks Pete.

                    Juan

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Understand that, when the volume and tone are turned up full, the amp (or first pedal) "sees" essentially three potential signal sources: a pickup of something in the neighbourhood of 6k-10k DC resistance, a tone pot and cap in the neighbourhood of 250k-500k resistance, and a volume pot of somewhere in the neighbourhood of 250k-1M resistance. Of those three, the amp/pedal will preferentially "see" the pickup.

                      When the volume control is turned down from max, however, whatever resistance lies between the wiper and the input to that pot is added in series with the pickup. So, if the amp may have seen an 8k pickup and 500k to ground, it might now see 400k to ground from the wiper, and 100k added in series to the pickup. As a 108k source, the cable connecting the guitar and amp now has a more severe impact on the tone, and will bleed a lot of treble.

                      An experiment I encourage you to try is to plug your guitar into the amp, with the amp set for the cleanest brightest tone possible. First, use the longest cable you have, then use the shortest cable you have. For example if you can physically do it, use an 8" patch cord and compare it to a 25' cord. Try it with the guitar volume turned up full, and then with the guitar volume turned down to around 6 or so. I think you'll find that: a) the guitar will sound MUCH brighter with the short cable, and b) the difference between the two cables might be decreased with the volume turned down (i.e., dull in both cases), but will still be duller with the long cable.

                      The strategy used to combat this is to employ a compensating cap on the volume control as others have described. That cap provides what is effectively a zero-ohm path for higher frequencies, so that when you turn down the volume, instead of adding 50k, 100k, 200k, or whatever in series with the pickup for the entire signal, you're adding zero ohms for the top end, resulting in a brighter signal at less than max volume.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by cenizasblancas View Post
                        The guitar, is the Ibanez, Paul Gilbert model, and thanks Pete.

                        Juan
                        You said it yourself, I think. The pickups aren't worth a dink.
                        You need better pickups to start with. This will make all the difference...
                        I recommend: (use this as benchmark)
                        Van Halen Store: EVH Frankenstein Humbucker
                        Angus Young Signature Humbucker Pickup - Gibson Store
                        Burstbucker Type 1 Pickup - Gibson Store
                        I mean, no matter what PU fits on the guitar, you should use a professional PU. If you need a professional result...you can't expect that from a POS PU.
                        Oh come on now, time to change pickups...has to happen sometime.
                        Once you have the right PU and the right amp...
                        turn down the guitar volume to get a clean sound, should sound good, not sterile.
                        turn up the guitar volume to get overdrive, should shred.
                        If you don't get that sound at least, you may need PU or amp change.

                        But there is another factor of wood, construction, etc...some guitars don't sound good.
                        No matter what PU it will still sound like dink, and no matter what amp.
                        And you will just, in that case, buy another guitar.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by soundguruman View Post
                          You said it yourself, I think. The pickups aren't worth a dink.
                          You need better pickups to start with. This will make all the difference...
                          Do you even know what kind of pickups that guitar has? I'm betting you don't. So why are you telling him to replace the pickups?

                          You want him to put some crappy Gibson bustbuckers in that? Ha! You think those will work better than the DiMarzios in there? Why is that? The DiMarzios are very much like a PAF.

                          Yeah, buy another guitar. Good advice. Have you ever even played an Ibanez? The guitar is fine, and the pickups in that guitar are fine. The problem is you can't turn down the volume control on hot humbuckers without them getting muddy. The simple solution to that is to use a treble bypass circuit.

                          Seymour Duncan Treble Bleed Wiring Diagram
                          It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                          http://coneyislandguitars.com
                          www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by David Schwab View Post
                            Do you even know what kind of pickups that guitar has? I'm betting you don't. So why are you telling him to replace the pickups?

                            You want him to put some crappy Gibson bustbuckers in that? Ha! You think those will work better than the DiMarzios in there? Why is that? The DiMarzios are very much like a PAF.

                            Yeah, buy another guitar. Good advice. Have you ever even played an Ibanez? The guitar is fine, and the pickups in that guitar are fine. The problem is you can't turn down the volume control on hot humbuckers without them getting muddy. The simple solution to that is to use a treble bypass circuit.

                            Seymour Duncan Treble Bleed Wiring Diagram
                            OP said: "the pickup that i have is a stock and very cheap also itīs very hot too" (I would say that he said it all, previously)
                            OK, so buy better pickups to start with.
                            We have a few Japanese guitars around, and the pickups cost $1.98 !
                            So, we accept the fact that the PUs are junk, and buy better PUs.
                            If you don't like EVH, Burstbucker, Angus, then find some you DO like...
                            But, don't expect a professional result from a $1.98 pickup. That's just wishing.
                            (I have always disliked DiMarzio Pickups, but to each his own, I guess)

                            I have an Epi LP from the "Epiphone Custom Shop." And we know the PUs cost $20 a dozen...
                            But when I put Angus PU on, it screams. And I get a great tone with the volume turned down low.
                            And I don't have a "bypass cap" either, I don't need it. Neither do 90% of the professionals out there, playing today.
                            We don't need it, because we start with a professional PU, that is designed to do a professional job, without that goofy stuff added.
                            Last edited by soundguruman; 01-29-2013, 08:22 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by soundguruman View Post
                              OP said: "the pickup that i have is a stock and very cheap also itīs very hot too" (I would say that he said it all, previously)
                              That's not the post you quoted.

                              You quoted to this:

                              Originally Posted by cenizasblancas
                              The guitar, is the Ibanez, Paul Gilbert model, and thanks Pete.

                              Juan
                              Then you said:

                              You said it yourself, I think. The pickups aren't worth a dink.
                              So that makes people think you are referring to the Ibanez. The Ibanez Paul Gilbert model uses DiMarzio pickups. If you were giving advice about the stagg LP style guitar, then you should have quoted that post.

                              Cheap guitars, incuding most of the lower end Epiphones have really crappy sounding pickups. My FirstAct GarageMaster had the worst sounding muddy pickups. It' probably why you can find those guitars dirt cheap.

                              I swapped out the originals for some I made and now it's a great sounding guitar, as cheap as it is.
                              It would be possible to describe everything scientifically, but it would make no sense; it would be without meaning, as if you described a Beethoven symphony as a variation of wave pressure. — Albert Einstein


                              http://coneyislandguitars.com
                              www.soundcloud.com/davidravenmoon

                              Comment

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