Making a cheap guitar play and sound great...Epi and Squier Mods

[Slobrain]

Hey Folks,

I've owned many expensive guitars but I always enjoyed making cheap guitars play great whether it be a refret, fret leveling and or new pickups, I've made some cheap Squier strats really sound good and play well. I have a few MIM strats with Squier standard necks I have refretted only to like the Squier necks better than the MIM necks. Of course you have to relevel the fret boards on the Squier necks, I've changed the radius on some to a flatter 12 or 14.

I've never bought a cheap Epiphone to mod but wanted to ask if any one here has ever played on the cheap Epi SG's or LP's?

Any thoughts on if the Epi's are worthy to do this? I love a good Gibson SG but the prices on Gibson's are ridiculous...

Thanks

Slo

[Paleo Pete]

Not too familiar with the Epi Sg's, but have played a few of the LP models. Usually the pickups seem to be pretty decent, most of the necks are too fat for me, same as Gibbys. I find I have to be very picky with EPis, and won't touch their Strat model, that angled down headstock is a whammy bar nightmare. Touch it and it's out of tune. Had one, got rid of it first chance I got for a Squier Strat I love. (the one in my avatar)

I think if you find one that plays well it would be worth tinkering with. I've always liked Epiphone acoustics, and the electrics I've played were usually pretty good. I don't know what pickups they use, but the ones I've tried out in music stores and pawn shops usually sound fairly good so it might just be a matter of adjustments like pickup height and so forth. I'd look around for the older ones, the newer models are probably made in China and I haven't seen anything from there I like yet.

Good luck with it, be picky and look them over close, Epiphone does make some good guitars but as with most non top brands you have to be choosy.

[bob p]

I think you've got a good idea going here, though I personally steer away from Squires in favor of Mexican guitars, for a couple of reasons.

First, every time I've picked one up in the store I've been bothered by the hardware. Things like 5-way strat switches on the CV that are so flimsy that you can bend them if you're not careful.

One other thing that I like about the Mexis is that they use the same species of wood that I'm used to in the American guitars. I've never been able to fully embrace the new species of wood that I've found in the Squiers. Sometimes they don't hold screws very well.

A third thing that's working in favor of the MIM guitars is that the economy is so bad right now that the market is getting glutted with MIM guitars. Right now I'm seeing used MIM Standard Strats in good condition selling for as little as $200 at Guitar Center. At those prices, I'm buying Mexican, but I agree completely with your thesis about buying used import fixer-upper guitars.

You can get some really nice instruments as starting blocks if you're the kind of guy who likes to work on the guitars that need a little finish work. I recently picked up a MIM Deluxe P-Bass Special that needs a little work related to a mislocated bridge. The neck ended up being nicer than on an American bass that normally costs twice as much -- better rosewood, dark, tighter, more linear grain on the MIM compared to poorly colored rosewood, non-uniform grain with swirls and knots on the American. No kidding. The Mexican neck was every bit as good from a feel standpoint, and the fingerboard was 10x better than on the American model. The worst thing that I could say about the MIM neck was that it had some dark spots in the maple on the back side, so I'd have to say that the neck blank probably wasn't a select clear board.

All things considered, the MIM bass was totally better instrument than my USA Hwy1, so I sold the Hwy 1 for and bought the Mexican.bass for a fraction of the price and pocketed some extra money. All that the Mexi P needed was the correction of some botched wiring by a previous owner, and some attention to a poorly located bridge (still have to work on that).

All things considered, the MIM PJ has turned out to be a much better instrument than my USA Hwy1 Jazz, even thought it only costs a fraction of the price. I think the moral of the story is that you can get a screaming deal if you know how to select a great used foreign instrument that needs some TLC, and do the finishing work yourself.

[big_teee]

I've had good luck with the Rondo SX, & Agile guitars and basses.
I'm left handed, and hard to find many discount lefties.
I always gut the guitar and replace Pots, switches & pickups.
I usually buy Rondo's B-Stocks and sale items.
With Rondo, if you don't like it, or something wrong they will pay to have the brown truck pick it up, and credit your account.
http://www.rondomusic.com/
T

[The Dude]

I've got both a Squier strat and an Epi Les Paul in my collection. My experience is that the electronics in both were "cheap". Both have had multiple pot and switch changes finally upgrading to something better. The tuners on the Squier were also crap- changed. Pickups in the Squier sounded good, but were waaaaay to noisy- changed. Les Paul pickups were ok, but I changed them anyway- more of a preference thing. Both guitars needed fret leveling and both had frets that were not hammered all the way in. Fixing this made a world of difference in playability. After a bit of tinkering, both play well and sound great. Even after all of the piddling around with them, it was still well worth it. I have a couple of very useable axes for much less than a "real" Paul or Strat would cost. I've got a couple of custom Billy Bo's, a Warmoth Strat, a couple of Tele's, etc., and both of the "cheap" guitars get just as much use.

[Slobrain]

I have to agree about all writing the electronics in the cheapies stink. I usually replace most all that. I see the bolt on neck Epi SG or LP and think that I could just replace the frets with some Jescar jumbo. I find that any Squier neck I've refretted I have to relevel the fretboard first. Seems Squier isn't real strict on fretboard leveling.
I gave my nephew a MIM strat body loaded with a GFS strat bridge with the brass block and also gave him a Squier Affinity neck made in Indo and that strat plays so easy and sounds so good. of course I had to do a fret level on the Affinity neck first. He loaded it with SD JB and a GFS neck HB pup.
I usually build my strats with Fender MIM bodies and Warmoth conversion necks so they feel a bit more like a Gibson by the scale length. I also will use the Squier full size basswood body with Warmth conversion necks too. I tend to really like the basswood tone.
As far as some woods being a bit soft, I usually will coat the inside screw holes with super glue to fix that issue. Works well.

I guess I wrote this thread as I was looking at a Epi SG and it looked really good. I wanted another cheapie to fix up. I really like mahogany body guitars and I have a Gibson SG but the neck is like the fat 50s style so I never really liked playing it that much as I have small hands.

Maybe one of these days Gibson will get price competitive and not charge so much for their guitars. Some of those Gibbie prices keep a good guitarist from getting a nice guitar. Fender was never that way and that's a good thing...

[bob p]

It's not only Gibson that is being run by an MBA with his head up his ass. Look at what Rickenbacker has been doing with their prices -- their model is revenue growth through price increases. And they have the nerve to do that while their personnel do such a crappy job on sunburst finishes. It's as if they don't know how to fade the paint and they just put a dark ring around the body.

[bob p]

These are examples of three different guitars.

[The Dude]

These are examples of three different guitars.

Taking cues from bad graffiti on passing trains or was it a preschool art project?

[bob p]

I don't know what the problem is, but those guitars look like they were painted with sponges instead of spray guns.

What amazes me about this is that they're high-end 1960s reissue guitars that cost several thousand dollars each.

I remember seeing a company profile about Rickenbacker on CNBC. It was a dog and pony show to try to get investors excited about the company. Every guitar on the line had an awful sunburst paint job just like these. I get the impression that they don't even realize that there's a QA problem.

[Slobrain]

I don't know what the problem is, but those guitars look like they were painted with sponges instead of spray guns.

What amazes me about this is that they're high-end 1960s reissue guitars that cost several thousand dollars each.

I remember seeing a company profile about Rickenbacker on CNBC. It was a dog and pony show to try to get investors excited about the company. Every guitar on the line had an awful sunburst paint job just like these. I get the impression that they don't even realize that there's a QA problem.

Hey Bob,

Maybe if the CEO of Rickenbacker reads this post they will realize there is a problem...LOL...

You would be surprised that some from the industry do read the posts here, I guess that's where some from the industry get their ideas for mods and tweaks...

Cheers...