Will copper shielding fix a ground buzz?

[bjfly17]

I recently did a major mod to my guitar, rewiring everything. Surprisingly, I got it all to work perfectly on my first run-through. However, now it has developed a small ground buzz (a buzz that goes away when I touch any metal on the guitar). I read up on it and looked into it some: I rechecked all my connections for solid solder jobs, wrapped electrical tape around all bare wires or open spots, and I reapplied generous amounts of solder to all grounds to ensure that that are all indeed attached and grounded. No luck though. I did a lot of wiring and soldering work to get all the mods connected, so I am very hesitant to tear everything apart and do it again.

I have been reading up on shielding cavities with copper tape and am considering it.

Do you think copper shielding will affect a ground buzz such as this? Or does anyone have any other troubleshooting suggestions?

[big_teee]

Lots of varibles on guitar wiring and noise.
Shielding can help, but must be grounded.
When you rewired,
Did you use shielded wire on long runs, like to a switch
Did you ground the bridge
Ground the Backs of the Pots.
keep leads short,
Are your pickups Single Coils, or Humbuckers?
Is noise better or Worse when playing close or far from the amp?
A few things to consider.
GL,
T

[bjfly17]

Lots of varibles on guitar wiring and noise.
Shielding can help, but must be grounded.
When you rewired,
Did you use shielded wire on long runs, like to a switch
Did you ground the bridge
Ground the Backs of the Pots.
keep leads short,
Are your pickups Single Coils, or Humbuckers?
Is noise better or Worse when playing close or far from the amp?
A few things to consider.
GL,
T

I used shielded four conductor from the pickups and cloth push-back wire for all other wire.
I did attach the ground to the bridge.
I did ground all pots to each other and the main ground.
The leads are relatively short I suppose...
Humbuckers.
Noise remains the same at all points from amp.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Paleo Pete]

Check your guitar cable. Or try another one. Also try a different power outlet just in case.

I'm not sure if shielding would do the trick, what that does is reduce interference from outside sources, it probably wouldn't do much good with a definite ground problem. Somewhere along the line you have something you missed in the grounds. Double check especially the ground to the bridge and make sure it has good contact, and also has contact through the bridge to the strings. If you're getting that type of hum you have a ground problem somewhere.

[Chuck H]

Something about the way you're wired may not be grounding the guitar to the amp properly. If your amp is grounded then the guitar should be grounded via the jack. Assuming your guitar has a ground lead to the bridge (it must since the buzz stops when you touch the strings or other metal parts) YOU are the ground. You should make sure all your cable shields are grounded via the amp when the guitar is plugged in. Otherwise it's possible your amp isn't grounded correctly. Bad house, garage, shop, studio or stage wiring isn't uncommon. Ergo the ground lead to the bridge so that the guitar can ground to you. Other than that... IMHE some guitars just need to have a hand on them to remain quiet. You did say you did major mods. Assuming you have your hands on the guitar when your playing it, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[bjfly17]

I checked with another cable. My amp is a new vox and it was fine prior to the mods. Tried a different outlet, plugged in to through a surge protector. I have tried so many quick fixes but I'm struggling to find the solution.

Thanks for the help.

Check your guitar cable. Or try another one. Also try a different power outlet just in case.

I'm not sure if shielding would do the trick, what that does is reduce interference from outside sources, it probably wouldn't do much good with a definite ground problem. Somewhere along the line you have something you missed in the grounds. Double check especially the ground to the bridge and make sure it has good contact, and also has contact through the bridge to the strings. If you're getting that type of hum you have a ground problem somewhere.

[bjfly17]

Thanks for the help. I really doubt it's the amp, it wad fine before. But I don't know that I can just accept the ground buzz. I need to fix it. I am doubting the shielding will fix it, but I'm also pretty unwilling to redo everything j did. Any thoughts?

Something about the way you're wired may not be grounding the guitar to the amp properly. If your amp is grounded then the guitar should be grounded via the jack. Assuming your guitar has a ground lead to the bridge (it must since the buzz stops when you touch the strings or other metal parts) YOU are the ground. You should make sure all your cable shields are grounded via the amp when the guitar is plugged in. Otherwise it's possible your amp isn't grounded correctly. Bad house, garage, shop, studio or stage wiring isn't uncommon. Ergo the ground lead to the bridge so that the guitar can ground to you. Other than that... IMHE some guitars just need to have a hand on them to remain quiet. You did say you did major mods. Assuming you have your hands on the guitar when your playing it, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

[big_teee]

A lot of us here wire guitars all the time, we can probably figure it out if we can see it.
Can you include some pictures of the wiring area in the guitar?
Not sure what you have, and we are only guessing.
If it was quiet before and it is noisy now, sounds like something to do with wiring.
T

[soundguruman]

I recently did a major mod to my guitar, rewiring everything. Surprisingly, I got it all to work perfectly on my first run-through. However, now it has developed a small ground buzz (a buzz that goes away when I touch any metal on the guitar). I read up on it and looked into it some: I rechecked all my connections for solid solder jobs, wrapped electrical tape around all bare wires or open spots, and I reapplied generous amounts of solder to all grounds to ensure that that are all indeed attached and grounded. No luck though. I did a lot of wiring and soldering work to get all the mods connected, so I am very hesitant to tear everything apart and do it again.

I have been reading up on shielding cavities with copper tape and am considering it.

Do you think copper shielding will affect a ground buzz such as this? Or does anyone have any other troubleshooting suggestions?

"Do you think copper shielding will affect a ground buzz such as this?"

No.
One of the obvious things is that you probably don't have a good electrical receptacle ground.

Adding shielding tape inside the guitar is simply installing parallel capacitance to the audio path...
killing the highest frequencies...
and making it "appear as if" the noise is reduced.
But all that has been done is remove part of the audio, the highest frequency buzz noise.
And the lower frequency buzz is still there.

The tone control does the same thing, and so does an EQ with the high frequencies attenuated.

The noise originates in the winding of the pickup. It inducts AC fields...from wiring, transformers, fluorescent light ballasts...
shielding the inside of the guitar does nothing to prevent that.
But it does kill the high frequency response, and attenuates the higher frequency of the "buzz."

I could solder a capacitor across the guitar output jack, and accomplish the very same results.

OR use a very long guitar shielded cable to add parallel capacitance...same thing.

The fundamental problem is that single coil pickups are noisy...
and people who install them want to believe that
single coil "should be" noiseless.

But it will never happen. That belief system is flawed to start with.
So, shielding the inside of the guitar to stop a single coil pickup buzz...is a defective assumption constructed on an imaginary belief system.
That will never come true.

So, you can play guitar in a Faraday Cage.
Which blocks AC fields from reaching the pickup...
and the buzz will finally be gone.

Or power all appliances with pure battery DC...so that no AC fields are present, anywhere.
and the buzz will be gone.

Or use a dummy coil, in series with the single coil pickup...
to make a humbucking pickup.
And that means that the PU is no longer single coil.

All methods of shielding the guitar, to get rid of single coil buzz, are quackery.
They all fail, every time.

There IS no "troubleshooting" for this problem...
because there was no trouble...to start with.

The problem is in your head, not in the guitar.

[Chuck H]

So, shielding the inside of the guitar to stop a single coil pickup buzz...is a defective assumption constructed on an imaginary belief system. That will never come true.

That's only true because the pickups stick up out of the pickguard. Your suggestion that shielding the guitars electronics cavities causes audible capacitive losses is ridiculous.

One COULD shield the inside of the pickup covers and achieve some buzz reduction. But this also comes at the expense of introducing additional self inductance and capacitance on the pickup coil. I know, I've done it. The actual amount of buzz reduction was small. Maybe 25 to 35% (I didn't measure it). So if you try it and don't like the tonal alteration it has on the pickup, just undo it.

A little wound up this morning? You seem angry. Your post this morning to one of my new started threads also demonstrated impatience since it was clear that you didn't read it carefully. Maybe get a cup of coffee and a walk in at a local park or something. Have a bowl of hot soup.

[big_teee]

I've done lots of experimenting with pickups and noise in my shop.
I have a jack wired to alligator clips, that I hook to a raw pickup.
I then can wave it around in front of the test amp.
You always get maximum noise in front of the PT of the amp.
All pickups do pick up some hum if placed close to the PT, whether SC, or Humbucker.
All pickups are quieter in a guitar, they pickup the most noise when loose.
I then experimented with Strat Pickguards.
I like to glue heavy aluminum foil to the full pickguard, and mount all componets on the foil.
This does help on what I call Static noise, Ticking type noise.
Shielding has no effect on 60hz hum, but does help on the static ticking type noises.
I tried putting foil around single coils, and all I accomplished was breaking a wire on one of my prized Single Coils, and it had to be rewound!
The alternative to Strat SCs, is Blades, and Stacked pickups, but I have never found them to sound as good as true Single Coils.
Shielding IMO if properly grounded is some effective, but left ungrounded, just make things worse.
I like the shielding Paint, it is easy to apply, and can be touched up at anytime, but expensive.
T

[soundguruman]

I could take a strat, and put all the tape, paint, foil, shielding inside it.

I could take a strat and solder a cap across the output jack...

And there is NO WAY any of you could tell which one is which. (except looking inside it)
There is no difference in the sound, or the noise, between the two.

You have been duped.

Noise in = Noise out

You wanted a single coil PU because the high frequencies sounded better...
Then you put the foil inside, and killed the high frequencies....

Oh, that makes sense.

Look at me! I have single coil pickups, with no high frequencies! Look mom, no buzz!
(except the buzz is still there, minus the high frequencies)

[big_teee]

I could take a strat, and put all the tape, paint, foil, shielding inside it.

I could take a strat and solder a cap across the output jack...

And there is NO WAY any of you could tell which one is which. (except looking inside it)
There is no difference in the sound, or the noise, between the two.
You have been duped.

The Cap effects the tone, the shielding does not.
If the Cap Works, great, whatever works is OK with me, it would have to be a very small cap.
On the Cap, I have noticed that if you turn the tone control all the way off you have less noise, but then you have the muffled tone of the Cap.
I don't get the You have to be right, and everyone else has to be wrong attitude?
We're all on the same team here, or least I thought we were?
T

[soundguruman]

"The Cap effects the tone, the shielding does not."

Hahahahahahhahahahhahhhahahhahhahahahhhahahahhhahahhahah ah!

I know better than to fall for that one.
The shielding obviously does kill the high frequencies. You "could" measure the capacitance of the shielding, with a meter.

Over the last 35 years, I have seem gimmicks, come and go.
And this is just one more gimmick, to add to a whole pile of other gimmicks...

[big_teee]

"The Cap effects the tone, the shielding does not."

Hahahahahahhahahahhahhhahahhahhahahahhhahahahhhahahhahah ah!

I know better than to fall for that one.
The shielding obviously does kill the high frequencies. You "could" measure the capacitance of the shielding, with a meter.

Over the last 35 years, I have seem gimmicks, come and go.
And this is just one more gimmick, to add to a whole pile of other gimmicks...

Sorry, but IMO you're wrong on this one.
You need to go back to the lab and do more experimenting.
You can have your opinions, and I have mine.
I'm done with you, It is a waste of time, have a nice life!
T