Guitar setup tips

[Steve A.]

Slobrain:

I plan to practice on my ~1998 blue Epiphone Casino- the original blue guitar! I thought that the fret ends stuck out too much so I started filing them down a little bit. But it turned out to be a little bit too much and unless you were fretting the high E string dead center it would slip off the side of the guitar...

That guitar had all sorts of little rattles. Like the tune-a-matic bridge- the threads on the studs did not match the threads on the body. (I got some bolts with the correct thread and cut them to length.)

I need to measure the radius of the Epiphone neck so I can order frets for that guitar as well as the PRS.

Jumbo frets. I like guitars that came with them from the factory but I think that you can have intonation problems if you replace super tiny frets with super big ones. I'll have to measure the frets on a 2012 SE Custom semi-hollow to make sure that I am ordering the right ones.

So with the frets removed from a fretboard what is the advantage of the notched straightedge?

Steve

[John_H]

<< the wire from PL
That doesn't look bad. I always pay attention to the length of the tang, especially for a refret.
<< I like this wire from stewmac for refrets. The long tang really holds well.

I've never used a notched straightedge.
I think a lot of Dan Erlewine's, or whoever's tools/inventions are pretty clever, but hardly needed.

I'd recommend practicing on an unbound bolt-on neck from a cheap Asian guitar for starters. Learning on a large guitar such as a casino could be very awkward.

[dmartn149]

I think a lot of Dan Erlewine's, or whoever's tools/inventions are pretty clever, but hardly needed.

I was encouraged to do my Charvel by an interview with Albert Collins where he said that he used to re-fret his guitar himself on the road between gigs. I think that he probably didn't have a lot of special tools with him. The only "special" tool that I used was my end cutters that I modded for pulling fretts. I used a dremil to under cut the tangs and also to trim excess fret length. You just have to go slow to keep the heat down.

[Slobrain]

I use the notched straight edge for three reasons, the first is to check the fretboard evenness while sanding problem humps in the fretboard wood when sanding them down even, I mostly see this in Squier necks...
The second, re-radiusing a fretboard from say a 9.5 to a 12. the third is to get the fretboard straight when doing the fret leveling after the new frets are installed so that the new frets will level evenly from the nut to the end of the fretboard. You want the fretboard wood to be straight so the frets will level evenly.
Prepping a fretboard is critical in getting the playability great. another word, the fretboard needs to be consistent from one end to the other without dips in the wood. If the fretboard wood has dips then the frets will not level very well and you will have taller and shorter frets across the fretboard after a long and tedious leveling of the new frets. The notched straight edge will show you any problems with the fretboard itself.

You would be surprised that a little too much sanding on a fretboard can cause fret unevenness when installing and trying to level them. If the fretboard is even all the way from one end to the other the correct radiused frets will go in nicely and level with minimal loss of metal retaining the height.

I have found more issues in intonation with smaller uneven frets over the taller frets. Some guys really like the Dunlop 6105 tall thin frets for really perfect intonation. When jumbo frets get a flat spot then it can cause an intonation issue but it has to be really worn down. You can relevel and crown jumbo frets and get longer life from the frets with the jumbo. I personally like the way they feel. Zakk Wilde, Yngwie Malmsteen and many other pros really like the jumbo frets too. EVH and Joe Satriani likes the Dunlop 6105s if I remember correctly.

I crown my frets to come to a point on the top roundness. They play well and good intonation. The picture I had attached earlier was the installed fret without the final level. The guitar in this pic shows a reradiused and refretted Squier standard neck on a MIM strat body, I added the new fender strat logo on it too to get my Hendrix look. It plays very well and very fast too. I also had to install and cut a new bone nut too so it will work with the new taller frets.

[Steve A.]

I'd recommend practicing on an unbound bolt-on neck from a cheap Asian guitar for starters. Learning on a large guitar such as a casino could be very awkward.

Yikes- I just checked and the Casino does have a bound fretboard. I may just start on the PRS and work slowly. As for the frets the link I posted has the same basic specs as what PRS uses. But I will measure the frets on a 2012 model SE semi-hollow to make sure since I really like the big frets on that one.

Steve

[Steve A.]

I use the notched straight edge for three reasons, the first is to check the fretboard evenness while sanding problem humps in the fretboard wood when sanding them down even, I mostly see this in Squier necks...

The notched straight edges I have seen listed are for 24.75" and 25.5"- my PRS SE has a 25" scale. Will that work? I suppose I could notch my own with a Dremel...

The intonation problems I have heard about have to do with the player pushing down too hard on frets considerably taller than the original. BTW a guitar is an equal-tempered instrument (like a piano) and many of the chords in a particular key will not sound right unless you do micro-bends on some of the strings. Some players blame the frets but I blame the player...

Steve

[John_H]

The notched straight edges I have seen listed are for 24.75" and 25.5"- my PRS SE has a 25" scale. Will that work? I suppose I could notch my own with a Dremel...

I wouldn't sweat it Steve. I've never needed one. Ever. You can do it all with a regular straightedge. I do suggest though that you use one that is fairly rigid. I've got one that's 36" made of steel.

The intonation problems I have heard about have to do with the player pushing down too hard on frets considerably taller than the original. A guitar is an equal-tempered instrument (like a piano) and some of the chords in a particular key will not sound right unless you do micro-bends on some of the strings. Some players blame the frets but I blame the player...

Steve

I could never understand the desire for scalloped fingerboards.

Here's a one piece walnut neck on a bass I'm building.

[Rick Turner]

I've done hundreds and hundreds of refrets and far more than my share of fretting in a manufacturing setting; I've also had dozens of luthiers working for me over 44 years of making instruments. There's absolutely nothing like practice and experience. You just can't get good at doing fretwork unless you do a lot of it.

For one thing, you should slightly over-bend the fretwire so the ends seat first. You should not have to hammer the hell out of frets or you'll just induce a back bend and the ends of the fret(s) will pop up. Use a deadblow hammer or a light brass headed one. Start at each end and then work your way tap at a time to the center. Do the entire fretboard and then go back with the fret rocker and gently tap high spots down. Yes, superglue is great, but you should be able to get pretty close to perfect just with the hammer, and then do the gluing. A perfect fingerboard surface...before you put the frets in...makes for a perfect fret job. Use a small triangular file to bevel the fret slot edges just a bit to make getting the frets in easier, and that will also help prevent chips the next time the 'board is refretted. There's nothing like using a resistance soldering station to heat the frets for getting them out. Don't skimp on tools. Learn the overlaid fret end trick, and go ahead and buy the StewMac fret nipping tool. Just because you get one done well early in your refretting career does not make you an expert...there's always a surprise awaiting you. Be careful with superglue around nitro lacquer...if you get drips on the lacquer on the neck, you're screwed. Be careful with soldering irons around celluloid binding unless you like fire in your face. Don't forget that there were about 20 years when Fender put their frets in from the side and if you pull them out straight up...even with heat...you're screwed...look it up on line. There's no need to buy fret wire from a guitar manufacturer like PRS; they don't make their own wire. Go to Paul Hostetter, luthier - bowed and fretted instruments - welcome to my home page and check Paul's fretwire size chart; also check out his treatise on shaping string nuts...it's the best. You can buy small quantities of practically any size from the right suppliers. Jescar wire is fantastic. Dunlop is very good, too. Jescar "Gold" fretwire is easier to install than stainless steel and seems to last as long. The last time I visited Fender, they were wasting about 1 1/2" of fret wire per fret position on well over 200 instruments a day; you do the math! Lightly dampening the fret tang with water...or spit...lubes the fret and makes installing easier. Martin has many different tang widths for refretting and literally wedging necks to take out too much relief; what a stupid concept, but it works on Martins with no adjustable truss rod. Fretting over the body on acoustic guitars is tricky. If you do a great fret job on a vintage guitar, it should look 100% original...so good that an expert vintage dealer will not catch it as a refret. That means knowing exactly how the fret ends were treated at the various different factories; there's Gibson style, Martin style, and Gangam style... I did a '41 D-45 for Bernie Leadon that he then sold for $125,000.00. It was perfect. Don't use superglue on valuable vintage instruments. I used hot hide glue on that one.

[tedmich]

a few personal observations,
-you generally want the fret itself a bit under-radiused (to a smaller radius) so the ends are less likely to pop free, and there is little danger the middle will pop free as a result.
-Don't undercut the tang on the outside ends (with the special cutters or manually) to accommodate a neck binding (yuck!) or to do slot refilling, as it makes the fret quite a bit less stable.
-you can make a custom crowning "file" by laying saran wrap over good fret and molding epoxy putty over it, then stick strips of carbide paper (with a non permanent spray glue) to the hardened epoxy to recrown the troublesome frets in the exact same shape.
-CA glue can be useful but is often not needed if the slots are fit well
-use a triangular file, like used in chem labs to score glass tubing, to chamfer fresh slots to better accommodate tang and also lessen the chance of pulling up wood flakes from fret slot edge when removing frets.
-don't try to cut these slots by hand


-finally NEVER use old fashioned (or cool colored) soft metal fretwire! SS is the bomb!

[Rick Turner]

I cannot agree with the advice not to undercut fret ends to accommodate binding. We do it all the time, and we don't have an issue with it. We're building eight or nine bound fingerboard guitars a month, and we do undercut. You just have to do it correctly.

I like the StewMac diamond grit fret recrowning files.

If you refret really well, you'll hardly need to do fret recrowning.

We're now milling fret slots on our CNC machine with bits from "Precise Bits". Fantastic. We can do closed ended slots, too.

[tedmich]

I just hate bound fretboards, you do what you have to to accommodate that (poor in my opinion) design.

[Slobrain]

I've done hundreds and hundreds of refrets and far more than my share of fretting in a manufacturing setting; I've also had dozens of luthiers working for me over 44 years of making instruments. There's absolutely nothing like practice and experience. You just can't get good at doing fretwork unless you do a lot of it.

For one thing, you should slightly over-bend the fretwire so the ends seat first. You should not have to hammer the hell out of frets or you'll just induce a back bend and the ends of the fret(s) will pop up. Use a deadblow hammer or a light brass headed one. Start at each end and then work your way tap at a time to the center. Do the entire fretboard and then go back with the fret rocker and gently tap high spots down. Yes, superglue is great, but you should be able to get pretty close to perfect just with the hammer, and then do the gluing. A perfect fingerboard surface...before you put the frets in...makes for a perfect fret job. Use a small triangular file to bevel the fret slot edges just a bit to make getting the frets in easier, and that will also help prevent chips the next time the 'board is refretted. There's nothing like using a resistance soldering station to heat the frets for getting them out. Don't skimp on tools. Learn the overlaid fret end trick, and go ahead and buy the StewMac fret nipping tool. Just because you get one done well early in your refretting career does not make you an expert...there's always a surprise awaiting you. Be careful with superglue around nitro lacquer...if you get drips on the lacquer on the neck, you're screwed. Be careful with soldering irons around celluloid binding unless you like fire in your face. Don't forget that there were about 20 years when Fender put their frets in from the side and if you pull them out straight up...even with heat...you're screwed...look it up on line. There's no need to buy fret wire from a guitar manufacturer like PRS; they don't make their own wire. Go to Paul Hostetter, luthier - bowed and fretted instruments - welcome to my home page and check Paul's fretwire size chart; also check out his treatise on shaping string nuts...it's the best. You can buy small quantities of practically any size from the right suppliers. Jescar wire is fantastic. Dunlop is very good, too. Jescar "Gold" fretwire is easier to install than stainless steel and seems to last as long. The last time I visited Fender, they were wasting about 1 1/2" of fret wire per fret position on well over 200 instruments a day; you do the math! Lightly dampening the fret tang with water...or spit...lubes the fret and makes installing easier. Martin has many different tang widths for refretting and literally wedging necks to take out too much relief; what a stupid concept, but it works on Martins with no adjustable truss rod. Fretting over the body on acoustic guitars is tricky. If you do a great fret job on a vintage guitar, it should look 100% original...so good that an expert vintage dealer will not catch it as a refret. That means knowing exactly how the fret ends were treated at the various different factories; there's Gibson style, Martin style, and Gangam style... I did a '41 D-45 for Bernie Leadon that he then sold for $125,000.00. It was perfect. Don't use superglue on valuable vintage instruments. I used hot hide glue on that one.

Rick has excellent advice. I've done maybe a dozen refrets and I find every neck is a bit different and has its ups and downs. I definitely would recommend doing a cheap guitar (Squier or cheap Epi) before doing the PRS. that way you get an idea of all that will need to be done. getting experienced by doing the work before you do it you should look at as many refret videos out there too. this will give an idea of all that you might run into doing the refret.

Regarding the notched straight edge, it allows you to read the fretboard with the frets in. I personally find using one most valuable... some feel they don't need them and I guess it depends on the person. I used a regular straight edge before getting the notched straight edge and after getting it I realized how much more they helped me in getting the fretboard straight when doing the work. A good straight edge will work well with an unfretted neck. it will work with a fretted neck too but with uneven frets it will rock. its a personal preference thing.

Doing refretting requires tools like any other job. Could an AC repairman do his work without a set of gauges?

[John_H]

Great advice Rick. My experience is more like dozens rather than "hundreds and hundreds", but practice is paramount. I'm just a guy who makes stuff in his garage, and by no means an expert, but I can make a pretty nice neck with basic tools. I wish I could be as confident when it comes to finishing.

[tedmich]

Since you guys are all professional fretboardists maybe you can help me understand, I am puzzled by people who scallop the higher frets; the string NEVER actually contacts the wood up there unless you are slacking them out with extreme vibrato bridge action. Even little old Tele frets almost never show the ugly dirt from losing their finish high up on the neck. Lower than 12 frets do see the string touch wood. Maybe the scallop helps them feel position?

[Rick Turner]

I personally really like bound fingerboards for several reasons: I like the feel; I like the look; I like the hidden fret slot ends.

If you're doing professional fret work, you'd better get really good a dealing with bound fingerboards unless you like to turn work away and get a reputation for being a diva.

Scalloped fingerboards are really for getting more meat of your fingertip on the string, especially for string bends. Flush fret scalloped boards have been done for decades and decades on a limited basis; and there is an undeniable comfort factor when sliding up the fingerboard. See if you can find guitars made by Phillip Interdonati on the web.

Pro guitar techs do not have the luxury of imposing personal prejudices upon customers and their instruments. If you want to make money as a luthier, stop listening so much to your inner voices and start listening to real world customers.

Unless you're a Trustafarian and it just doesn't matter whether you get paid or not...