Epiphone Les Paul Special 2 finish question

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
I was wondering if it would be possible to use a palm sander and a scotch bright pad to remove some of the black around the edges of the sunburst on this guitar ?

[ric]

You'll want to make sure it's not a ply top or it can not only be a line but it can be a sharp, delaminated edge if you get down into it. Happened to me. I refinished a made in Mexico Tele. Got a nice authentic butterscotch and all was well until I tried to bevel in arm relief on the top of the bass bout, and ended up with an arm hair puller. There was the edge of the ply poking through. I don't know about Epi Les Paul's, but I'm sure someone here does. If it's solid, may want to start with something like 1500 and go easy to see if you like what you're getting. That's my two cents worth.

[ric]

Also, SpareRibs, it isn't likely they sprayed extra brown under the black, so you're in for a refinish when you start sanding. Set neck has to be masked, pickups and wiring pulled, etc. Refinished the guitar is devalued, probably significantly. My Tele was already refinished in a goofy way when I bought it.

[Paleo Pete]

I would leave it alone...if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If you really want to get into sanding, start with nothing more coarse than 1200 or 1500 grit, go easy and do it by hand NOT a palm sander. Finish with 2000 grit. Ask at auto body shops for local sources. I know one auto parts store carries it but can't remember which one, I bought 1000, 1200, 1500 and 2000 several years ago from a parts house. I don't know if the Epi is ply, but if it is you'll be completely refinishing. Don't want to get into that unless you know how. And it's not a "grab some Krylon" project...as already mentioned, it might not be black on top of tobacco, more likely side by side airbrush, remove the black and you'll be seeing bare wood.

I'd leave it alone. If you don't like the color, sell it and buy one you do like.

[potatofarmer]

I found a full refinish done of an earlier version of this guitar here: Epiphone Special rescued and refinished - Gibson Guitar Board

I think it's likely this guitar will be plywood too. And with the poly finish... If you're just trying to make the brown area larger, I think the answer to your question is unfortunately "no."

I take it that's a Warmoth neck - I have a similar guitar that I like (Les Paul 100) but the mahogany neck has way too much flex for me. How much did that set you back, and did you change the scale in the process?

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
Paul, Yes it is a Warmoth neck. I bought it from Beck's guitars in Phoenix Arizona. No I didn't change the scale length, it is Gibson scale as opposed to Fender. The cost was a lot less than retail as someone had ordered it, placed a deposit and never returned to pick it up. So my price was the balance of the cost which came to $85.00. So I am not sure of the actual cost retail directly from Warmoth. However that was over twenty years ago.
The problem you will have is that type of neck will have more frets than the neck on your guitar, thereby being longer, so it will not be a direct replacement. I overcame that problem by removing the small piece of wood between the neck pocket and the neck pickup cavity. As I have another Epiphone Les Paul Special 2 in tobacco sunburst I now have a set which is the Les Paul setup as well as a matching JR setup.
So in order to do the same thing you will have to make some major changes to your existing guitar, or find another bolt on with the same number of frets.

[Rick Turner]

Boy, you really do want to live in a world of hurt, don't you?

Leave it alone.

BTW, it's not unlikely that the darkest color was sprayed first over a flat sanding sealer, and then the red was done. That's how I shoot 'bursts...yes, dark first.

If you mess with it, it's going to backfire like crazy on you.

[Steve A.]

I never took the Epiphone LP's with a bolt-on neck seriously- they sell new for under $170. And I don't see the colors in the sunburst finish of my guitars when I am playing them anyway so that would not bother me...

Steve A.

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
To all of the above. I realize this started as a cheap guitar, I know that. I started with just the complete body with no neck. The body is solid wood or I would have stopped at that point. I put on the Warmoth (Grover tuning pegs) neck as an effort to keep from throwing it all away. The neck was something that was just laying around from a previous project that didn't come together. Then I installed the 5 position rotary switch as an experiment, another thing laying around. It gives 5 distinct sounds [1. Series In Phase (humbucker) 2.Single Coil (North) 3. Parallel in Phase 4. Single Coil (South) 5. Series Out of Phase ]. Th pickup is a DiMarzio.
To pull it all together I made a pick guard to mimic a Les Paul JR. The knobs are the Telecaster type so all three would be uniform in look. Now that is functional I was trying to make it a little more refined looking. The finish is some type of urethane and extremely thick, another point of which I am aware.
I have 19 other guitars, so I am not some starry eyed kid in his moms basement trying to be a rock star with a substandard instrument, defending it at all cost.. This is another part of an experiment trying to work with the finish on this particular guitar, knowing it is not a quality instrument but trying to improve upon it without putting a better instrument at risk to learn what is possible and what is not when dealing with urethane.
Thanks to all of the above for your input.

[SpareRibs]

I never took the Epiphone LP's with a bolt-on neck seriously- they sell new for under $170. And I don't see the colors in the sunburst finish of my guitars when I am playing them anyway so that would not bother me...
Steve A.

Hello,
Yeah, Look what a flop it was when Fender came out using bolt on necks

[Steve A.]

I never took the Epiphone LP's with a bolt-on neck seriously- they sell new for under $170.

Look what a flop it was when Fender came out using bolt on necks

I don't take Fender Squire guitars selling for under $170 seriously, either. Bolt-on necks were an integral part of the strat and tele design; set necks were an integral part of the Les Paul design. Mixing and matching designs for musical instruments can be iffy...

Steve A.

[John_H]

Mixing and matching designs for musical instruments can be iffy...

[Steve A.]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]30209[/ATTACH]

Let me amplify your remark...

[ric]

Hey, SpareRibs-

I think your guitar looks cool with the mix n match. I also think it's cool to rewire and try things. I didn't want to have any part of you getting into the finish and not being happy with the results, so I tried to caution you. Sounds like you're going into this with eyes open.

I only have cheap instruments. That's all I can afford. And I enjoy working on my stuff as much or more than playing. I rewire, change pickups, mix pickup bobbins, level frets, change necks around, rework and or change bridges, nuts, and anything else I feel like. I've learned a lot, wrecked a lot and honed skills.

If you want to practice messing around with finishes, the only way to learn is try. One risks failure, but accept that and you're free to try. I refinished my Tele probably a dozen times before I got what I wanted. Now I know that I can. On a wash back of the neck I lost the sticker, but the neck plays like butter and I like the way it looks now. The neck is on a pawnshop copy guitar body. Dynasonic neck pickup, sounds better than tele, P90, or anything else I tried. Not exactly vintage original, it's ric-a-fied and that's appropriate, because it's mine.

So what I've learned that I can share with you: Catalized poly finishes sprayed by a pro motorcycle restorer look good but sound damped. Sounded better after I sanded the back and front bevels back to bare wood and tung oiled and buffed a yard sale SG I got with the neck popped out of the neck pocket. Don't mix enamel and laquer as I did on a laminate Tele copy. Looks ok and isn't sticky, but even years later if it hangs touching another guitar it pops off a piece of finish. An unloved Gibson Sonex 180 got clearcoated over a multicolored partly sanded through surface I'd leveled to try yet another color on, and the artist wife says it looks cool just like it is in the prep stage. So, hey, trying stuff, sometimes it works out better, sometimes not. I've learned from all of it.

Well, whatever you decide to do, best of luck with it. Post a picture when you're done if you feel like it.

[SpareRibs]

I don't take Fender Squire guitars selling for under $170 seriously, either. Bolt-on necks were an integral part of the strat and tele design; set necks were an integral part of the Les Paul design. Mixing and matching designs for musical instruments can be iffy...
Steve A.

Hello,
The guitar HAD a bolt on neck to start. The neck I installed is 25 3/4" scale. It just happens to look like a Fender neck. Sometimes mixing and matching is a necessity as very few if any vendors offer Gibson style replacement bolt on necks. If you are aware of any please let me know. I even did an extensive search in my area for a used one.
Now being that I had one on hand that would suffice that is what I used. I cannot see why that bothers you so much. How could it possible be iffy to replace one bolt on neck with another bolt on neck of the same scale ? I know it may be total blasphemy to mix two aromas of imitation cork but sometimes it can't be helped.