Luthiery/frets: stupid questions and crazy tips

[Steve A.]

Rather than clog up this forum with separate threads for all of my questions I'll try to put all of my questions as a novice in this thread.

Tip #1: quick and dirty bender for 2' sticks of fret wire (from an Ibanez GEM forum)...
One member reported good results using a 4" diameter clean-out plug from the plumbing section of his local hardware store. Everybody freaked out... "4 inch diameter is way too small for guitar frets, dude!"



That member never did post an explanation but I figured out what he meant... Use the 4" diameter threaded plug as a pivot point as you bend the fretwire (you don't wrap the fretwire tightly around the plug.) The tang rests safely between the threads and you could even secure the square tab with a bench clamp. The ends of the fretwire don't have much of a bend but I understand that some of the homemade benders have that problem, too.

This is just a temporary measure until I buy or build a real fretwire bender. LMI sells a 2 page instruction sheet for building the Steve Klein bender for $5.90 but the shipping charge for it is like $8. That would be okay if you were ordering more stuff but it is kinda expensive for just the instruction sheet. Hey, its the 21st Century- allow customers to download it for $6.00. If they are worried about pirate copies cutting into their sales there is nothing stopping buyer from scanning the printed instructions and posting them on a website.

Tip #2. Solder station for heating frets. I have a Weller WLC100 solder station with an SPG40 iron that was gathering dust (I bought to save wear and tear on my Hakko 936 which was going through tips way too fast- turns out that I had the temperature control miscalibrated so when set to 700 was really 800 or higher.)

Worn out tips for the Hakko 936 can be used with the SPG40 (which is not thermostatically controlled) even though their diameter is smaller than the Weller ST tips. The ST4 appears to be the largest tip available for the SPG40. It might be interesting to have a parallel groove on one side of the tip (to keep it centered on the fret) and a groove at 90 degrees for the other side.

(A thermostatically controlled iron or station with the temperature sensor in the tip should not be filed. Best to use a regular iron that doesn't cycle on and off to maintain an even temperature. The WLC100 is a power control- it controls the voltage and/or current going to the iron like a light dimmer.)



The fret puller included in this kit at eBay is total junk*** - I ended up getting a real one from StewMac. However the fret lifter is pretty cool once you get a fret started with the StewMac fret puller- I figure that it saves wear and tear on the StewMac puller.

*** I may be able to make it work better using my grinder to reshape the head.

Steve A.

[tedmich]

I have what appears to be the exact model of nippers as the "fret puller" you show, and I simply ground them down into flush cutters, they've worked well for pulling frets and cutting SS frets and all manner of wire for several years, although I did hurt the edge on some hardened steel rod.

Heating old cruddy frets smells terrible and over heating can mess with fret slots and possibly lead to wood flaking at the slot edge, I have had a good luck overnight soaking with lemon or almond oil to aid (unglued) fret removal. Heat might be required on cyanoacrylic gel set frets though.

[John_H]

Steve, Here are instructions for a DIY fretwire bender on the Project Guitar forum. I have no personal experience, but it looks like a nice design. Jay5's $15 Home Depot Fret Bender - Tools and Shop Chat - ProjectGuitar.com

I've got one of the stewmac benders. It was a gift from my daughter a few years ago.

The radiant heat from an incandescent lamp will heat frets effectively, and evenly.

[Steve A.]

I have what appears to be the exact model of nippers as the "fret puller" you show, and I simply ground them down into flush cutters, they've worked well for pulling frets and cutting SS frets and all manner of wire for several years, although I did hurt the edge on some hardened steel rod.

With the StewMac fret puller in hand I used a grinder to re-create those shapes on the eBay fret puller as well as a $12 pair of end nippers from Irwin (which is now working better than the StewMac one.)
Requirements:
#1. The cutting edges must meet at the highest point of the pullers
#2. You don't want the top of the pullers to be completely flat- it needs to curve down from the cutting edges.
#3. The underside of the cutting edges must also have a smooth curve which is actually what pulls the fret up. (I used a metal cutting Dremel tip to accomplish this with Irwin nippers.)

The nippers in this $9.88 kit from Home Depot works very well once ground down (Step #3 was not necessary.) I found that it worked better than the eBay one which was



I actually got the end nippers with a 3 piece precision plier set (#860504) which is no longer listed on the website. (I got the set for the flat billed pliers which I modified for bending fretwire, with a groove on one jaw for the fret tang and a rounded channel on the other jaw to accommodate the crown. I had to wrap crown jaw with electrical tape to keep it from putting tiny notches in the crown.)

I bought a few of the Nicholson 6" slim taper triangular files from Home Depot for $3.97 in the store which have proved to be very useful in shaping frets and fret ends. You do need to grind down the edges to keep from damaging the fretboard. (Be sure to put tape on the cutting surfaces because it is very easy to grind off the teeth.) This is the only full-size file at Home Depot which can be used on frets. (This is not a substitute for the triangular $40 StewMac cantsaw file used for crowning the frets.)

Nicholson 6 in. Slim Taper File-21874LN at The Home Depot

Steve A.

P.S. I got a Weller ST4 tip for my WLC100 solder station and shaped one side of the tip with a parallel groove and the other side with a perpendicular groove. It also fits my WP25 soldering which I am using instead of the SPG40 that comes with the WLC100. By heating the frets they come out much easier with less damage to the fretboard. I have not yet tried it with a bound neck but I think that the game plan is to pull up the fret ends without heat until they are clear of the plastic.

(which also works with the pro-quality WP25 iron

[Steve A.]

Quick'n'dirty trick for filling file marks on fretboard

Tip #3 (A quick'n'dirty trick for filling dings and file marks on fretboard)

I saw this technique in a YouTube video (probably Sully's Guitar Garage). You first load a piece of sandpaper with wood dust from your fretboard and then dab a little CA glue on the ding and immediately go over the patch with the sandpaper (the wood dust will bond to the CA.) If any undusted CA remains remove it promptly with CA remover.
CAUTION: This is more of a DIY-er trick than a professional technique. You probably would not want to do it on a valued instrument.


Tip #3A (How to make a little sanding pad)

Cut the sandpaper into a square shape. Fold it in half towards the paper side, first in one direction and then in the other creating 4 smaller squares. Cut one of the 4 lines and then fold one square over another and then fold the remaining squares over that.

From a link which might explain it better: "fold a square of sandpaper into quarters. Cut one fold to the center. Then, fold the sandpaper over itself. This will keep the sandpaper from slipping."



Steve A.

[Steve A.]

Tip #4 (92 cent Fret Slot Cleaning Tool)
You can spend $15.50 to buy the StewMac fret slot cleaning tool...



STEWMAC.COM - Fret Slot Cleaning Tool

... or you can spend 92 cents to buy the replacement chisel tip (SM#4871) which will fit in the medium sized Xacto blade handle which you undoubtedly already have (this is the one that takes blades with ~3/8" tangs.) The handle that StewMac effectively sells for $14.58 sure looks nice but I think you could find a set of generic Xacto blades and handles for much less than that- and have all of the cutting blades to boot.

BTW there is a reversed curve Xacto blade that comes with the eBay fret slot cleaning tool but that blade is sharp! The StewMac blade is just flat metal (.018") with no cutting edge. Although the picture on eBay suggests that the blade is custom made for cleaning fret slots it is just a standard #28 Xacto blade.



Tip 4A: StewMac refret saw

One StewMac tool that I've found to be indispensible in cleaning fret slots is their $17.26 refret saw which comes in 3 thicknesses: .015", .020" & .025". You can save $8.28 by buying all 3 refret saws but I'm not sure if the .025" one is very useful. BTW I first bought the .020" but that was really rough going so I got the .015" which I always start off with. If the tangs on the new frets aren't particularly wide I may not use the .020" refret saw at all for a snug fit. (With the .015" refret saw the minimum width of the slot is .015" so the actual width could be .020 or more. I haven't had any trouble fitting new frets into slots cleaned with the .015" refret saw- they are nice and snug.)

.015" refret saw is Item #3604
.020" refret saw is Item #3602
.025" refret saw is Item #3605



STEWMAC.COM - Refret Saw

BTW some people have made their own refret saws cutting up hacksaw blades and somehow securing them to a handle. I suppose that you could try using a short hacksaw piece with the smaller needle nose ViseGrip pliers but don't come crying to me because you gouged your fretboard (see Tip #3 for the wrong, er, my way to deal with that.)

Steve A.

EDIT 01/29/2015: After using the StewMac refret saws I recommended here I wish I had gotten the Japanese refret saw from Ryobi for a few bucks more. I haven't had any problems yet with the StewMac refret saws but I have a hunch that one of the blades will eventually come loose from the crimped saw back, hopefully not causing any damage to the guitar in the process.



http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools...aning_Saw.html

https://www.amplifiedparts.com/products/S-T221-RYOBA-4

[Steve A.]

Unexpected source for Dunlop fretwire in 2# coils

I was hunting the internet for a source of the Dunlop 6100 fretwire in 2# coils and came up with nothing so I called Dunlop direct in Benicia. Dunlop only sells it at their retail price $206 for the 2# coils so they suggested that I buy it from one of their dealers. They first mentioned Strings and Things but they also mentioned that it can be ordered from Guitar Center. Huh?

I called the local GC store and after some emails from the Dunlop we got the part number (6100C2) and price: $78 including tax and shipping to the store. That works out to about $5 per guitar and unlike the 24 piece retail packs (which sell on eBay for $15+) they are not straight but bent to a radius of 8" or 9". That might sound a bit tight but it shouldn't be too hard to bend it by hand to whatever radius you need.

Special orders at GC of items not listed in their computer can be baffling to many of the associates so you might want to talk to a manager to get it going.

Steve Ahola

P.S. I just called Jescar and their 1# packages of fretwire are in 10" coils- $45 for nickel steel, $90 for EVO and around $60 for stainless steel. I had ordered 25 piece packs from them previously which are radiused to 10 inches and if you buy the frets in 5 lots there is a 20% discount bringing it down to $8 for the nickel-silver, $12 for SS and $16 for the EVO (which is like the Cadillac of fret wire with a nice gold color.)

I had first ordered some Jescar EVO frets from Philadelphia Luthiery which is more expensive than Jescar (especially for the bigger sizes) and doesn't offer discounts on 5 lots. However they will bend the frets to whatever radius you want and if you are already ordering other supplies then you'd save on shipping charges.

P.P.S. I just checked the LMI site and their prices on 4' lengths of Jescar wire look very reasonable.

EDIT I weighed and measured the .104/.047 Jescar EVO gold frets and by the pound direct from Jescar it is $90 which works out to ~$9 per guitar (a pack of 25 precut frets usually sells for $20.) From LMI if you buy 12' for $27.45 it works out to about $9.15 a guitar. In both cases it comes in a coil with a radius of 10" which is easy to bend tighter or looser by hand as needed. (Bending straight fret wire without special tools is real bear!)

So I must give LMI a big two thumb salute for offering good prices at reasonable quantities... and their s/h charges are better than StewMac. (The nickel/silver wire is about half the price of the EVO gold if you want to compare prices with Dunlop or StewMac fret wire.)

[Steve A.]

Fret dressing sticks are really cool. With StewMac selling them for $3 I ended up getting 6 of them to use with different grits and with/without the little groove at the top for frets. I kept grabbing the wrong one so I decided to mark them using a soldering iron with a very fine tip. I put 1 to 3 dots on the back end of the stick to indicate the coarser grits, with 1 being the most course (120) and 3 for 240. These sticks do not have the groove on the pointy end. I marked the ones using finer grits with 1 to 3 dots near the pointy end of the stick. These sticks have the groove on the end.

So much for the sticks and on to the belts.
#1. StewMac does not label their bags and they list a 600 belt which is actually 500 grit. So if I am already placing an order at Kingspor for rolls of sand cloth I will get the belts from them which are a little bit cheaper than SM but more important they are labeled.
#2. I started marking the inside of the belts right after the seam to indicate the grit. 2 marks for 220, 3 marks for 320, 4 marks for 400 and- surprise, surprise- 5 marks for 500. As for the 120 and 180 grit belts I was faced with a dilemma- I can't give them both 1 mark. So I decided to mark the 120 with 1 mark followed by 2 marks. As for 180 grit I just mark that with 1 mark (since I don't want to follow it with 8 marks!) And besides I usually don't use anything coarser than 180 grit on the fret dressing stick (120 would be more like a fret UNdressing stick as it scratches it all up.) If I need to remove a lot of metal from a fret a file works better for me to rough it out .

Speaking of files I just learned a cool trick. If you are using a flat file to smooth all of the fret ends at once it works better for me if I cover half of the working surface with masking tape.

Steve Ahola

[Steve A.]

Hardware store fret tang cutter

Tip #5: Hardware store fret tang cutter

I had purchased and modified one of the cheap $7 sheet metal nibbler tools for cutting fret tangs. In my initial tests it seemed to work well but in preparing for a refret job I noticed that it would "stall" a lot- with harder EVO fret tangs I could not get enough leverage to cut some of them. So I decided to upgrade to the $23 Klein nibbler tool which works much better.

To modify it for cutting fret tangs you need to make a half-round channel on the "anvil" to accommodate the fret crown with the tang hanging over the square cut-out where the cutter goes. To access the anvil you need to remove the two visible screws as well as locknut on the top of the nibbler (far left in the picture.)



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000CBJCT

Tip #5A: $6.23 fretwire bending pliers

These may be too small but with the smooth duckbill jaws I figured that I would give them a shot. I modified Home Depot/Husky mini-lineman pliers to to hold fretwire for bending by hand. After removing the serrations on the jaws I cut a straight channel in one of the jaws to accommodate the fret tang and a half-round channel in the other jaw for the crown portion of the fretwire. The jaws left little marks on the crown which I tried to correct by rounding the half-round channel ends. That helped a bit but I ended up wrapping electrical tape around that jaw which looks kinda funky but it does work. With the StewMac fret bending pliers selling for around $45 I willing to give these a shot.



http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000TC3VQY

Steve Ahola

[tedmich]

Harbor freight $40 1 ton arbor press with DIY radiused caul for pressing frets coming soon,

(also ole chem lab triangular file for beveling fret slot prior to fret press)

33 Jescar SS frets (full 2 octaves) on the way!


doesn't leave much room at bridge, but I do almost nothing up there anyway

[Steve A.]

Harbor freight $40 1 ton arbor press with DIY radiused caul for pressing frets coming soon,

(also ole chem lab triangular file for beveling fret slot prior to fret press)

I looked at the arbor presses at HF but I already have two drill presses so I will use one of them with the $56 brass cauld/holder kit I got from StewMac.

I just found a nice 6" smooth cut mill file at the local hardware store. Here is a listing at Amazon. Nicholson has a similar file but the teeth are finer on the Corona.

Corona FE405506SC0CD 6-Inch Mill Smooth Cut File - - Amazon.com

[Brock Little]

Harbor freight $40 1 ton arbor press with DIY radiused caul for pressing frets coming soon,

(also ole chem lab triangular file for beveling fret slot prior to fret press)

33 Jescar SS frets (full 2 octaves) on the way!


doesn't leave much room at bridge, but I do almost nothing up there anyway

33 frets, with what looks like a few skipped, should come to 3 octaves for one string. Make it an 8 string, and you've got 6 octaves easily on tap! I have no use for an instrument like this - doesn't stop me wanting one

B

[tedmich]

I have no use for an instrument like this - doesn't stop me wanting one

B

It's between my 2 instruments, one the 24.75" scale 6 string Carvin I bought 32 years ago and 35" scale Rogue 6 string bass I have tuned as and octave guitar (D-D) with the lightest Ken Smith Bass strings possible. The new one will be 30" scale 8 string, and I have never needed an instrument before I learned to play it

[Steve A.]

On Frank Ford's site he recommends using diagonal pliers rather than end nippers for cutting off fret ends.

17. Trim fret ends with diagonal flush cutters. Before any further work on the frets, I want to trim the ends. That way there won't be an overhanging length that may bend easily if hit or snagged. Not to mention that these ends are dangerously sharp. My fret cutter is a pair of diagonal cutting pliers I've ground flush cutting on the back side:

I always hold my left hand under the cutter to catch the cut off ends. I don’t want to have a sharp piece of a fret loose on the bench to scratch the instrument while I'm working on it. Once was enough, if you know what I mean.

I checked out the diagonal pliers at Home Depot and went home with the $14.97 pair of DeWalts with compound leverage that gives 70% more cutting power (like compound leverage aviation shears.) That was the same price as the regular DeWalt and $5 more than the generic Husky brand but the selling point for me was that the cutting head was narrower so it could get between frets better. After grinding the back flush I tried them out and man did they shoot frets all over the place, almost like bullets! I guess I need to aim them towards a trash basket...

They are roughly half the price of the StewMac fret cutters which I will still use for cutting fret wire as they make a very clean cut.



DEWALT 9.7 in. Compound Action Diagonal Pliers-DWHT70275 at The Home Depot

Steve A.

[Steve A.]

Steel wool is really nasty shit which can get into pickups and pots but 3M does make a synthetic steel wool. I got some at the local hardware store the other day- $4.99 for a pack of 6 pads- and was looking around for a better price. I found one place that sells it for $2.77/pack but you would not know what you were being charged for shipping until after the order was shipped. Huh??? If they were the best source I would have called them on Monday to get some idea what kind of shipping prices they charge. But I did find a place that sold them for $3.40/pack if you bought 6 or more, and with a very reasonable shipping charge- $4.14. One place was going to charge $18... no effing way!




3M 10120 #000 Synthetic Steel Wool Pads - Extra Fine - 6 Pads per Package

Steve A.

P.S. I had bought a 6 pack of the 0000 synthetic steel wool awhile back but did not find it to be as useful as the 000. After using the 000 I move on to the Micro Mesh going from 1500 to 1800 to 2400 to 3200 to 3600.

P.P.S. While on the topic of smoothing frets I saw a video which suggested this method using sandpaper:
- go up and down the fretboard w/ #400
- go back and forth on the frets w/ #320
- go up and down the fretboard w/ #600
- go back and forth on the frets w/ #400
- go up and down the fretboard w/ #1200
- go back and forth on the frets w/ #600
- finish it up with #1200
The idea was that going back and forth would remove the sanding marks from going up and down