Does the Fender Microtilt system suck?

[olddawg]

I have always avoided Strats with the Microtilt style neck plate. I use mostly early 80s Japanese Squier Strats. My mainstay is 4 bold but I've played it out and needs a refret. I picked up a similar model off of Craig's List at a ridiculous price to play while I decide what to do with my old ax. But the replacement is 4 bolt Microtilt. It seems to lack the sustain of my other guitar. It seems to me that ANY. Microtilt system would have less contact in the neck pocket. I am considering removing the Allen bolt and shimming as necessary. I know they have been making Microtilt equipped guitars a long time and a lot of people play them. I also am aware there are a lot of parameters to sustain. My question is: "Does eliminating the Microtilt system always result in better sustain?"

[big_teee]

Don't know about the micro tilt?
On sustain I would examine the Tremelo sustain Block, it is real important.
The small alloy blocks are not good for sustain.
You can buy some cheap better sustain blocks from GFS.
Also the pickups are a big part of sustain.
Let us know what you come up with?
GL,
T

[John_H]

"Does eliminating the Microtilt system always result in better sustain?" No. If the neck is bottomed in the pocket it will make no difference. Try shimming it instead, and see if it's better. It likely will be.

[olddawg]

Don't know about the micro tilt?
On sustain I would examine the Tremelo sustain Block, it is real important.
The small alloy blocks are not good for sustain.
You can buy some cheap better sustain blocks from GFS.
Also the pickups are a big part of sustain.
Let us know what you come up with?
GL,
T

I should have said that I play these old Fujigen Gakki, black headstock Squiers because they have very slim necks, a 24.75" scale, and a great build quality. (Also got tired of vintage gear being stolen). I always replace the tuners, pickups and electronics. The term units an the 2 guitars seem the same. It gets weird trying to find a replacement term block for them. My concern is the micro tilt system. I REALLY don't like the 3 bolts!

[olddawg]

When I got the guitar, the action was too low for my taste so I raised the saddles. I just now pulled the neck off and backed off the micro tilt screw. On remounting the neck it is now flat in the neck pocket and my action is a bit too high. I will readjust and see if there is a noticeable difference in sustain.

[tedmich]

well since you replace the tuners, pickups and electronics anyway...

The microtilt was a gimmick that probably helped at the factory either with setup or costs, you can definitely shim the neck into the correct position with some nice hard wood (eastern maple or ipe) and add as many bolts (or screws) as you'd like.

[big_teee]

I should have said that I play these old Fujigen Gakki, black headstock Squiers because they have very slim necks, a 24.75" scale, and a great build quality. (Also got tired of vintage gear being stolen). I always replace the tuners, pickups and electronics. The term units an the 2 guitars seem the same. It gets weird trying to find a replacement term block for them. My concern is the micro tilt system. I REALLY don't like the 3 bolts!

Sorry!

[Steve A.]

"Does eliminating the Microtilt system always result in better sustain?" No. If the neck is bottomed in the pocket it will make no difference. Try shimming it instead, and see if it's better. It likely will be.

I asked my friend Felix about shimming guitar necks and he usually uses 1 or 2 thicknesses of the 320 grit self-stick sandpaper from StewMac. You are advised to shim the neck if you can't lower the saddles enough but Felix will shim them so that he can raise the saddles for a sharper break angle (one of his secrets when setting up guitars.)

I picked up some hardwood veneer from Rockler Woodworking Supply for miscellaneous shimming tasks.

Steve A.

[olddawg]

well since you replace the tuners, pickups and electronics anyway...

The microtilt was a gimmick that probably helped at the factory either with setup or costs, you can definitely shim the neck into the correct position with some nice hard wood (eastern maple or ipe) and add as many bolts (or screws) as you'd like.

I'm still ahead. I simply like the necks. I don't like the modern C profile. The first one (that I have played since 1986) I got used for $135. This last one took a while to find but I paid $200 w/case in unplayed condition. If you look them up on eBay they are fairly desirable since the secret is out and go for a lot more than that stock and played out. But yeah, people always ask me in the clubs what it is because it is a great sounding little guitar. I make jokes about putting $400 into a $135 guitar. But it's a maple and rosewood neck with an alder body made when Japan was building better Fenders than USA IMHO.

[olddawg]

So... I took the neck off, removed the Allen bolt for the micro-tilt cleaned up the neck pocket and neck, then reassembled as a standard 4 bolt. BIG difference. Someone had CRANKED the micro-tilt adjustment to get very low action by changing the neck angle and the neck was only seated at the back two screws. It's great now.

[SpareRibs]

Hello,
The (micro tilt) system was first widely available on Peavey guitars. Chip Todd also worked for Fender so it may have carried over. I questioned bypassing the system myself as I have a Peavey T60 with that system. It was the general consensus from a number of T60 players that it would have no effect on sustain to remove the Allen screw and shim the neck.

[olddawg]

Hello,
The (micro tilt) system was first widely available on Peavey guitars. Chip Todd also worked for Fender so it may have carried over. I questioned bypassing the system myself as I have a Peavey T60 with that system. It was the general consensus from a number of T60 players that it would have no effect on sustain to remove the Allen screw and shim the neck.

I guess it is subjective and is a subset of the old "set neck vs. bolt on" argument. It's been my experience that as long as a bolt on is "well seated and has complete contact" at the pocket, it is fine. Now the micro-tilt equipped guitars that I have played intonated fine and were playable .... Just a little dead. To some people it won't matter. However, I have played some 3 bolt micro-tilts that were wobbly as hell. I just don't see how using the micro-tilt adjustment can not help but reduce sustain since by design it lessens the contact area from the neck to the body.

[Justin Thomas]

I have read in at least one book (printed, ink & paper) that the original <Fender> micro-tilt necks with three bolts were wobbly because the holes in the body were actually drilled fractionally too large for the screws used to secure the neck. So there was no way to get good contact, and this was one big facto in Fender's perceived quality slide.

I have a four-bolt micro-tilt on my Tele (1996) but have never needed to use it. I have played it with only three screws in the neck, and had no trouble with wobbliness. If I was goingbto use the tilt, I'd use it to find an angle I liked, then make a shim. The only thing I do with it is to make sure the allen screw is screwed tiht to the steel truss rod end plate, because it rattles if I leave it loose.

I would hope that any 70s-reissue guitars with 3-bolts would NOT reissue the oversized holes... Cloning has its limits.

One q for SpareRibs: was it the concensus of T60 players that it WOULD have no effect IF they tried it, or that it DID NOT have any effect AFTER they tried it? Just seems to be more speculating v. experimenting... not being a PITA, I hope.

Justin

[Paleo Pete]

I have a Peavey Patriot, later cousin of the T 60, strat body with tele single coil setup (Peavey Super Ferrites) that plays and sounds fantastic, good sustain, cleanest sounding guitar I have, and it's 4 bolt micro tilt.

Just a couple of days ago tinkering with it plugged into a PA I'm thinking about using I noticed again how good it sounds and how well it sustains. I've never adjusted the tilt, when I did my original setup the day I got it I used the saddles, didn't even know the micro tilt existed till I got the manual later and read about it. But the action was a bit low, I play a little high for slide, so I raised the saddles as usual and carried on. It sustains just as good as my Squier Strat, possibly better. My Squier is probably a early 90's model, Korean, I've had it since around 1997 or so. Those are the two guitars I will never ever even think about letting go...The Peavey is the only guitar I ever bought that I made the decision in 30 seconds, usually I have to play one 2 or 3 times before I decide. I wanted the Patriot before I even plugged it in, the decision was already made before I plugged it into an amp...once I heard it I knew it was definitely a keeper...

I don't know a t hing about the Fender micro tilt, but I know the 4 bolt one on the Patriot has given me no problems at all and the guitar has good sustain, and I have no idea how it was set, I've never touched it. Don't plan to either, it's great as is...

[Steve A.]

The Peavey T60 microtilt screw would have to be tightened down to affect the tilt angle and possibly have an effect on the sustain. With 4 bolts to hold the neck securely I think it is a better system than the 3 bolt Fender system in the original post.

As for the area of contact between the neck and the body I would think that more vibrations would be transferred from the end of the neck to the vertical end of the pocket because of the tension from the strings. Or not.

Steve A.

P.S. I had a Peavey tele copy from the early 90's and as I recall it had the microtilt adjustment but was in the neutral position as shipped from the factory.