Gibson sg- very dark.

[Sea Chief]

Chaps-

always wanted an SG me, listening to those woody gtr sounds of the doors, acdc, even JP's twin axe-master-goliath, a very silly thing indeed, sounded sublime. Ive had 2 sg's now, and they just don't sound close Im loathed to admit. A strat sounds like a strat, and do sound close to those fine old things Clopton wailed away on (whilst I closed my ears- urgh). The main difference to those Ive heard on recordings so many times, is mine is very dark and muddy sounding. The sg's I know so well are crisp and resonant sounding: nearly the opposite in many respects. Yes the mahogany may have been lighter on those (I can almost hear it so) but both are mahogany SG's, both are gibson humbuckers with invariably those nickel covers on.. the design hasn't changed really; in all intents and purposes the same gtr. But one sounds like mud, those others sounds zingy and exciting. (Even BobM's LP jnr thing/ more an SG than a LP/ sounds zingy and exciting even if he did just 'chick-chick-chick' away so bootifully as he did on it).

What the c*ck?

I'm not talking P90's here btw, I love these- but Im on about regular gibson humbuckers in a regular sg here.

Thanks, Sea Chief.

[tedmich]

SGs have always sounded a bit big and dark to me, the combination of the Mahogany and the Gibson HB not to mention the insubstantial neck and neck joint, tend to make them pretty rounded to my ear. Definitely can be sharp, especially with a slide (Trucks) or a wah (old Mahogany Rush) but a dark guitar. Have you tried EB Cobalts on it? They have a crazy high edge and are currently my fav string, as I use no pick and need as much attack and sparkle as possible.

[big_teee]

Use Bright 500k Pots, .022uf Tone Caps.
If the Neck pickup is dark try a humbucker with less turns and Less DCR Resistance.
Also if you use covers, make sure they are nickel, and not brass, or try them without covers.
GL,
T

[Sea Chief]

Use Bright 500k Pots, .022uf Tone Caps.
If the Neck pickup is dark try a humbucker with less turns and Less DCR Resistance.
Also if you use covers, make sure they are nickel, and not brass, or try them without covers.
GL,
T

Interesting suggestions: the pot and cap idea sounds like a plan, mainly due to cost: I dont have money to just 'try another HB' really, without selling mine to fund which is a poss but I cant see how another set of gibson HB's are going to sound much different, ie considerably less muddy and dark- are they?

I am loathed to take a soldering iron to my gibson, but if it means a brighter sound then I might try/ Ive prolly got an orange drop 0.22 cap too s'where.

Strings- I will have a read about those- I have regular EBall slinky 9's on right now and use fast-fret to clean each time. Its odd I always thought the sg (from recordings I love) sounded brighter and crisper certainly than the LP.. but you say generally a dark gtr? I cant think of acdc as being anything but 'treble-attack' myself.

Thanks Sea Chief.

[big_teee]

Hi Chief:
I make pickups and work on guitars for local guitar stores.
I had an old guild LP type guitar come through, I made pickups for.
Even the new pickups sounded dull, and dark till I changed out the old Pots.
I like the 500k CTS pots.
If your pots have collector value, save them with the guitar.
GL,
T

[elipsey]

Hi,

I'm curious to know more about the guitar; what year, model, pickups, and what value of pots are already in it? I have a recent model SG and LP that were both very dark, and it mostly came down to the pot values.

Forgive me if it is so obvious that it has so far gone without saying, but some Gibson's came with 300k volume pots, which usually sound extremely dark with humbuckers IMO. This is cheap and easy to fix.

[Gaz]

Chaps-

always wanted an SG me, listening to those woody gtr sounds of the doors, acdc, even JP's twin axe-master-goliath, a very silly thing indeed, sounded sublime. Ive had 2 sg's now, and they just don't sound close Im loathed to admit. A strat sounds like a strat, and do sound close to those fine old things Clopton wailed away on (whilst I closed my ears- urgh). The main difference to those Ive heard on recordings so many times, is mine is very dark and muddy sounding. The sg's I know so well are crisp and resonant sounding: nearly the opposite in many respects. Yes the mahogany may have been lighter on those (I can almost hear it so) but both are mahogany SG's, both are gibson humbuckers with invariably those nickel covers on.. the design hasn't changed really; in all intents and purposes the same gtr. But one sounds like mud, those others sounds zingy and exciting. (Even BobM's LP jnr thing/ more an SG than a LP/ sounds zingy and exciting even if he did just 'chick-chick-chick' away so bootifully as he did on it).

What the c*ck?

I'm not talking P90's here btw, I love these- but Im on about regular gibson humbuckers in a regular sg here.

Thanks, Sea Chief.

I have played SGs my whole life.

Try the pot change to 500K (which you will need to do anyway to get it more like the vintage SGs you are hearing), but you MUST change the pickups if it has either the 498T/490R pair (in the Standards) or the 490T/490R pair (in the Specials). Those are modern sounding pickups that are hot, fat, and on the darker side. They are great for some things... but vintage tones is not one of them.

You can go crazy with pickups, but ANY PAF style will get you 95% there. For cheaper options the Dimarzio 36th anniversary or even the very affordable GFS Vintage '59, or even those Classic II's (I have not owned that one, however). Both under $40.00, and to be honest, sound as good or better than some very expensive ones I've tried. People have good things to say about Tonerider as well for a cheap option.

[Brock Little]

I have regular EBall slinky 9's on right now and use fast-fret to clean each time.
Thanks Sea Chief.

I am yet to find a string cleaner/lube that doesn't dull the tone of strings, especially wound strings. It fills the gaps, and kills tone. Fast-fret is also known for leaving a gummy residue on the strings. I used to use a product on my strings when recording, specifically to take away some of the harsh high end of new strings.
I agree with changing out pots etc, and if you're feeling adventurous, you can try removing some winds off the coils, or swapping out magnets. If it's not a collector's item, there's no need to worry about devaluing the pickups. It's also a fun learning experience.
It may also be worth thinking about the type of amp you're using. Some of your heroes mentioned above were known for using some pretty bright sounding amps etc.

[Paleo Pete]

I agree the pots may be an issue, an ditch the string stuff.

One thing you may want to try. Other than experimenting with strings anyway...I usually try to fine tune my pickups for what I want out of the guitar. I listened to my Cort CL1500 for a while, and found the same thing, but with the neck pickup. The bridge pickup seemed too bright. So I raised the treble end of the neck pickup and lowered the bass end a little, making it brighter and it cleared up a lot of the muddy sound. Did the opposite with the bridge pickup, so now it's not too bright and has some depth when I use it since raising the bass end, tone seems a lot better. I've done this with just about every guitar I've owned for the past 30 years, but I have to llisten to it close for a couple of months after doing a general pickup height setup so the volume levels are even. Most of the time when I get a guitar (mostly used ones) one pickup is louder than the other..

What clued me in is your mention of muddy sound. That's very often because the pickup is too close to the strings. Lower it a little and you'll get a cleaner sound. First lower it so it's parallel to the guitar body from top to bottom, then listen to it a few times. Decide if it needs a little more treble or bass, and fine tune accordingly by raising one end just a little. It doesn't take much to make a difference. One of mine, a Peavey Patriot, has single coil Peavey Super Ferrite pickups, those humbucker sized jobs used in the T-60, that are so hot I Had to lower the neck pickup below the guitar body to keep it from being muddy. And it still plays as loud as my other 4 guitars onstage...Come to think of it I just recently raised the treble end a bit to get it a little brighter, just decided I wanted a bit more treble out of that pickup.

Try that and see if it makes a difference, I found long ago that the pickups on my Squire Strat that I thought were garbage, just needed to be raised and fine tuned a bit, now it's my favorite guitar...somebody had set them way too low and it was really weak sounding, not even close to as loud as my other guitar onstage. (I only had 2 then) The Cort was the opposite, it sounded muddy and would not get me a nice clean sound when I got it, pickups too high and needed fine tuning for tone. After listening to it onstage Friday night I might do a little more fine tuning on it soon but after I Put on new strings...they could be dead by now...

[tedmich]

Cobalt's last a very long time without lube, you need new strings anyway and $8 is pretty cheap, but by all means replace both pickups ;P I'd suggest (not) EMGs

[olddawg]

EB Super Slinkies are $3.50 a set if you look around. I never clean strings except to wipe the neck down after a gig. I change strings every third gig. Any longer and the get muddy, intonate poorly, and break.

[big_teee]

I put Slinky 10s on everything I work on that needs strings.
I also keep S Slinkies in case someone asks for 9s.
T

[Leo_Gnardo]

While we're pitching string suggestions, if you want bright Dean Markley Blue Steels do the trick for my customers seeking that extra zing. You can find 'em almost anywhere and not terribly expensive.

OTOH Nickel strings (not nickel plate) for the other end of the tone spectrum. If your tone is already dull, nickel is not the thing to get. Should you swap out pickups for something brighter, and everything seems "too bright" then trying a set of all-nickel D'addario or Markleys or Balls might be in order.

[tedmich]

I play EB Cobalt Not Even Slinkys (12s) and they last for months and are bright as hell; since I use no pick whatsoever and pick with fingertips, not nails.

[Paleo Pete]

I'll vote for the Dean Markley Blue Steels too, I've been using them for years, ever since the first time I saw them on the shelf. Not only are they nice and bright, they last longer than anything else I've ever played. Recently been trying out their new variety, Helix HD, no definite opinion yet, they seem to be ok but I've only used them for 2 string changes, so not sure yet just how they perform overall. I got into Dean Markley in the late 70's, their acoustic strings got a great sound and lasted longer than anything else, and that was a major consideration playing on a street corner in Austin 5 or 6 nights a week...They would still last at least a week of that kind of abuse...can't beat that, nothing else lasted 3 nights. Onstage gigging 5 nights a week, same for the Blue Steels, I always kept spares on hand and still do, but rarely have I broke a string onstage. When playing that regular though, I change strings daily if possible. Once I started bringing up to 6 guitars, plus the acoustic, I found I could back off to changing strings once a week and do OK, and the Blue Steels have never let me down at all. So far the Helix strings have done ok but I might change back to Blue Steel, I've just been too happy with those for too long...