Nut angle/ sustain.

[Sea Chief]

I firmly believe the problem is not what you perceive it to be.
.

Chuck- the problem IS what I percieve it to be; the strings still go sharp. You cant be suggesting I dont know what a sharp note compared to a flat or tuned note is. come now. I have to turn the tuner down after hearing quite clearly its gone sharp. I as anyone would, turn down below then tune up to pitch. Just the unwound strings. It is accentuated if I play in the sun, and/or if the room is hot.. say the amo near me has been on for a while. The gibson is set up superbly well. It couldn't be bettered (without taking to a luthier, which when buying a quality gibson you are/ should not be required to do.. yes if you buy a squier & dont know how to get it best-as, as I can do, then your 2 hrs at a luthier is required if you want it playable up to our standards).

So I know unnoquivocally that heat causes the strings to sharpen. How is (another) mystery: one might expect if the string heats & expands it would 'slacken' if anything & go flat. The opposite appears to be true in practise.

[Chuck H]

If you have any illusion that your $600 Gibson is any better built or higher quality than a $300 Squire, it's not. See post #15. Professionals don't get stumped. If a professional can't fix it to your satisfaction they should at least be able to tell you why. If they can't, they're not professional enough.

[Sea Chief]

You might want to have a real close look at the nut. I kind of sounds like the string slots could be rounded off, so that the string isn't supported at the very end of the fret board. This would give the effect of the nut being too far from the first fret, and it will make intonation of the whole neck impossible. Actually it will never be perfect on the whole neck, but should be a lot closer than what you describe. Also, make sure that the nut is glued down good, and is not moving.

Good point. And in fact Im beginning to think its just made badly with respect to the precise nut-to-1st fret distance, or the precise 'end' of the string. But no noticeable angling of the nut either back or forward (it looks perfectly perpendicular), and no rounding off of the point in Q. It looks just as my new graphtech does, a sharp point in Q/ no rounding.

[guitician]

If heat is raising pitch then the wood is suspect. Maybe you got a fake Gibson.

[Chuck H]

Misplaced frets and nuts do happen. But as far as the "string end", there are adjustments on the bridge for that. The bridge would need to be placed very incorrectly for the intonation adjustments to be inadequate for string length compensation. Just to be clear... We are dealing with a standard Tune O Matic bridge and stop tail piece?

If the bridge can't be intonated to play in tune in all positions at any one time the nut and/or frets are placed incorrectly. If the nut and frets are placed correctly and the intonation is drifting due to neck warp or temperature the action height would be grossly noticeably affected or the guitar would be uncomfortably warm to handle. Otherwise the effect is subtle enough to recognize and tolerate as mild instability such as might be experienced in live situations where some more sensitive guitars are exposed to widely variable temperature and humidity. Mahogany necks are sort of known for this, but what you describe sounds different and more profound. Perhaps the guitar has a small toad living in it's belly and needs a good bleeding with leeches.?.

[Sea Chief]

If you have any illusion that your $600 Gibson is any better built or higher quality than a $300 Squire, it's not. See post #15. Professionals don't get stumped. If a professional can't fix it to your satisfaction they should at least be able to tell you why. If they can't, they're not professional enough.

Well yes it is way better built than the squier, & its way higher quality. But that doesn't automatially mean it plays any better; and it defo --shouldnt-- be blown out the water by the squier, or have so many niggles re intonation (or sustain be 1/2 as good IMO either). Re sustain at higher vols: even playing unplugged it sounds subdued and dies in the 5-12th region and upwards too, so I dont see how I can squeeze any more sustain out if it just doesnt do it in the 1st place.

(When I say 30 yrs experience Im not suggesting at all Ive got high-end luthier skills; Im just saying squarely that Ive enough experience to set up a guitar very well. I can do so with any gtr, in a couple of hours never a problem. This one tho the 1st Ive ever known, seems to just be unable to get right/ unending niggles.. so I have to conclude now that without factory-machines to test spacings of A to B etc etc.. its just not going to be got right. Id honestly even surmise that a luthier himself would accept its got the best of him, then just completely refret & re-nut the b'stard).

[Sea Chief]

There isnt any way though, that the frets could be spaced incorrectly. The machines in the factory cut them at precise positions. The nut is possible to be set incorrectly, I will grant that thought for sure.

"Is it a fake gibson?". Ive had 4 gibsons, this is the 2nd SG Ive had.

No its not a fake.

If the wood was suspect re the strings then all the strings would sharp. Its just the unwound top 3 that sharp; only a little now (thanks to someone suggesting I widen the slots which has helped) but I still retune the top 3 down almost as often as I did before, especially as its mid-summer. Heat simply affects the bare-metal strings, thats a given. How & why sharp f**k only knows.

[Chuck H]

Id honestly even surmise that a luthier himself would accept its got the best of him, then just completely refret & re-nut the b'stard).

This is your professional opinion then. Why should we need any further convincing.

I said:

Professionals don't get stumped. If a professional can't fix it to your satisfaction they should at least be able to tell you why. If they can't, they're not professional enough.

Someone who sees every problem a guitar can have, every day, every year for a couple of decades and is obligated to correct them absolutely will know exactly what is causing the problems you're having. They've seldom, if ever had any opportunity to throw their hands in the air and give up on a problem.

I've been thinking that you don't really want to solve the problems with your amps and guitars. In which case you should cherish the ones you are having problems with. They are doing exactly what you want them to do.

[John_H]

I've been thinking that you don't really want to solve the problems with your amps and guitars. In which case you should cherish the ones you are having problems with. They are doing exactly what you want them to do.

Be careful Chuck, You'll piss him off like I did. He'll call you names, bad ones. I think he's much better suited for a bassoon, or oboe than guitar. Anything without strings or an amplifier.

[dmartn149]

Misplaced frets and nuts do happen. But as far as the "string end", there are adjustments on the bridge for that. The bridge would need to be placed very incorrectly for the intonation adjustments to be inadequate for string length compensation

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that if the distance from the first fret to the nut is wrong, then from the 12th fret to nut would also be wrong. You could adjust the intonation to be perfect at the 12th fret and be off every where else. I once had a Heritage H150 that was like that when I got it. Here is what i did
Stephen Delft's Compensated Nut With just a slight amount of extra compensation at the G string. Sounded great after that.

[Chuck H]

Somehow I interpreted that the "string end" in question was implied to be the bridge for the purposes of my response. Of course the nut is also a string end

I have a mid 80's Yari DY-51 that seems to be a little out either at the nut or in the first five frets. It's not bad (couldn't be, I've been using it like this for 30 years ) It's on my bucket list of things to see about fixing. Most expensive thing I'd ever purchased up to that point in my life. It doesn't get to me often but when it does I just put the guitar away and drink.

[Sea Chief]

Be careful Chuck, You'll piss him off like I did. He'll call you names, bad ones. I think he's much better suited for a bassoon, or oboe than guitar. Anything without strings or an amplifier.

The muppets have come! (& shatner's bassoon himself too :-).

ChuckH. Id love to be able to solve the damn probs/ what the heck do you think I ask for just to waste my time? If I cant solve this sod of a gtr the 1st Ive had that's eluded me (& Ive exhausted anything that can be done by all accounts as I swear its well set up)- then like you say YES it needs to go to a luthier, who Id hope could fix it rather than be stumped. But the point about MEF is asking Why(esp as Ive not £100 to spend on a luthier) & trying to do so yourself, if poss. IE maybe s'ones gtr goes similarly sharp & they could help (which they've done & its far better thank you) or know why heat tends to sharp it etc.. or why the sustain in some mahog solids is or is known to be bad.. or s'ones had similar issues etc etc etc. Why was the Q, not neccessarily how. Plenty of Qs you seem frustrated you can't answer.

Its built great but alas plays badly. Its defeated me- that's all.

[Sea Chief]

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that if the distance from the first fret to the nut is wrong, then from the 12th fret to nut would also be wrong. You could adjust the intonation to be perfect at the 12th fret and be off every where else. I once had a Heritage H150 that was like that when I got it. Here is what i did
Stephen Delft's Compensated Nut With just a slight amount of extra compensation at the G string. Sounded great after that.

Hi dmartn149. Agree, Ive had a few gtrs with nuts eithe too high (often) or old & too far away from 1st fret. Quite easy to establish & sort out. But this is odd & follows no rules: ok intonation at 1st fret, difficult to get perfect harmonic tuning-&-pitch tuning (pointing to bad intonation), but, intonation perfect at 12th. Then at odd frets intonation weirdly poor, then back in line again. Not over all strings/ same fret either. Its a fret thing. Its an absolute SOD I want to spend no more time on. I want to throw it in the river & I dont trust gibson QC thesedays. Fenders Ive had have all been much better.

[Chuck H]

Plenty of Qs you seem frustrated you can't answer.

Not really. Maybe I could if I had the guitar here. Maybe not. All I have to work with here is what I'm told. I thought my answers were alright for most. Not for you I suppose. That's ok too.

[Sea Chief]

Your answers are alright; much appreciated & I always read yours twice Chuck. But dont be frustrated just cos you dont have the answer.. no one has its a gibson turkey simple as.

The bass, even with 50'swiring is still ridiculous.. via my Champ (8") its so OTT its just so unbalanced, so much so the 600pf bright cap I had to add for the SG makes the treble ok/ balanced now, but the bass is like a cello: compared the strat is stupid ice-pick bright now (but fine, just dial down gtr tones to 2 to be comparable to SG) but bass is normal. The SG is utterly useless. Its not an SG in my books.. its more a Les Paul-gone-wrong with poor sustain & 'bass gtr p'ups'.