Earvana nut > 1st fret?

[big_teee]

That's the problem with this younger generation. I was thinking "Bridgette Bardot".

Younger than what.
I've been retired 6 years. lol
Instead of Bridgette, lets go with Raquel!
I had a picture of her in a bikini in my Army foot locker in 1967!
T

[Sea Chief]

If 'fwd' is towards the bridge it should make the first fretted note play flat not sharp because the distance from nut to first fret is reduced. If the action is high at the nut it could possibly go the other way I suppose but I'm not sure. Measure the first fret action by holding down the string between the second and third frets. There should only be a tiny gap between the bottom of the string and top of the first fret.

Well then Im a dutchman & its more amiss than I thought then. Its damned difficult to know exactly if Im retuning all the time, cos X isnt tuned to Y, then I tweak it a tad here n there.. & I convince myself its better when perhaps its not.

This is why I simply need: the distance from the E > 1st fret.. and from top E > 1st fret. Thats all I need. But I cant find it, no reply from Earvana themselves. There's no point doing all the harmonics intonation etc unless I know these two things. (Or any one of the stepped positions' > to 1st fret distance) or Im wasting a heck of alot of time.

[Sea Chief]

But if you first adjust your bridge by capoing at the 3rd fret and checking fretted notes vs harmonics at the 15th fret, you eliminate the nut from the equation and your bridge should be spot-on.
More or less. Theoretically. I think.
OK, I'm obviously guessing.
I'm outta here.

But if the nut is acock.. then once Ive done this ^ then I cant expect the nut if its not set right yet (its just full at back while I wait for the distance > 1st fret info) to just be magically perfect when I take capo off. It will jsut all be out.

Am I missing something here? I cant for the life of me see any point doing intonation unless the nut is set precisely relative to 1st fret. Is that right, or not?

cocking thing. Now Im considering taking it out!! (but thats a whole £50 re-nut job I have not accounted for/ and I liked the stepped nut alot before- & there seems no reason I cant use it -IF- I have the simple knowledge to set it. It takes 2 mins. I never expected this complication and having to reset it at all).

[tedmich]

Caveat: I do not have "Golden Ears" and probably not Ag or Pb either! Eric Johnson could reportedly hear the difference between brass or steel screws in the back of his OD pedal and Holdsworth often eschews strumming chords because he wants the notes to all begin at the same time, so he likes plucking them simultaneously. I'm a caveman by comparison.

speaking of cavemen...

segue

[DRH1958]

Your absolutley right.. but I think your thinking too much albeit completely rationally. If you actually play one, its actually a remarkably good system- and only seems to affect the first position, which often is the cause of slight intonation problems. Mine before was so sweetly in tune anywhere.. now after the refret its a struggle. Sheesh hey-ho.

So I think since your guitar was sweetly in tune before the refret and you said the frets are higher in post #7 and re-affirm in post #24, then the refret job is the problem and now the guitar is different than before. It probably won't be right from now on. And since Gibsons have the headstock pitched back and Fender has the headstock parallel but lower, the break angle from the nut to the tuners are different, so just one distance from the nut to the first fret is different for different designs because of the different break angles. So Earvana probably can't give you an exact distance from the nut to the first fret. And since the tuners closest to the nut will cause the string to have a sharper break angle and therefore more tension than those further back, the tension applied by fretting at the first fret will have a different effect for the close tuners than the back tuners. So there can't be just one single distance that you want between the nut and first fret that will satisfy all these different tensions because of the different break angles of the strings.

EDIT: This is in response to your statement in post #33.
SECOND EDIT: Did I use the word Different too many times?

[eschertron]

Younger than what.
I've been retired 6 years. lol
Instead of Bridgette, lets go with Raquel!
I had a picture of her in a bikini in my Army foot locker in 1967!
T

from this film https://www.criterion.com/films/616-...-created-woman

That's what I was thinking about on the 8th day!

[big_teee]

This may have been the picture I had in my army locker.
Not sure it was a long time ago.
http://cliqueimg.com/cache/posts/img...nal.640x0c.jpg

[Richard]

But if the nut is acock.. then once Ive done this ^ then I cant expect the nut if its not set right yet (its just full at back while I wait for the distance > 1st fret info) to just be magically perfect when I take capo off. It will jsut all be out.

Am I missing something here? I cant for the life of me see any point doing intonation unless the nut is set precisely relative to 1st fret. Is that right, or not?

cocking thing. Now Im considering taking it out!! (but thats a whole £50 re-nut job I have not accounted for/ and I liked the stepped nut alot before- & there seems no reason I cant use it -IF- I have the simple knowledge to set it. It takes 2 mins. I never expected this complication and having to reset it at all).

I think if you set the intonation with a fretted note the bridge will be in the correct position. Then when you play an open string if it's flat move the nut towards the bridge. I doubt this would throw off the intonation of fretted notes.

[Sea Chief]

I think if you set the intonation with a fretted note the bridge will be in the correct position. Then when you play an open string if it's flat move the nut towards the bridge. I doubt this would throw off the intonation of fretted notes.

Aha ok Im with you- actually done now but yes I see that might make sense to go that way.

Anyway done & dusted. The new higher frets seem n/a to the issue now.

Thanks for the input chaps.

[rjb]

Woo-hoo, score!

Now, aren't you going to tell us how you did it?

[Sea Chief]

Woo-hoo, score!

Now, aren't you going to tell us how you did it?

Ah yes that might be a good idea!

Nut adjustable top section needed to go back max treb side, plus a bit too (tiny screws' recess raised bits push it fwd a mite if screw tightened well in, so I filed this raised bit to get nut flush to top & max+ back). Bass screw just shy of max back. Took a heck of time tho establishing the nut ideally prob had to be 'off' its max positions/ alot of retuning.. completed at 2AM.

Intonation excellent 1st position now & across the board. (Note: saddles nr completely flat across the plane from E to E.. prob/ guess they should all be totally flat[?]).

Cheers chaps. SC

[Sea Chief]

My figures (fwiw).. basically thus:

Top E to 1st fret = 35.5mm
B.. 34.5
G.. 33
D.. 34
A.. 34.5
Bass E to 1st fret = 35mm

[Mark Hammer]

I've seen a few players complain/note that, when only one of the players in a band has intonation-correction installed on their instrument, it makes the rest of the band sound off. It seems to be one of those things that has to be considered as a team project, rather than something done on a musician-wise basis.

That doesn't make it dumb or pointless, but is no instant easy panacea.

[Chuck H]

My figures (fwiw).. basically thus:

Top E to 1st fret = 35.5mm
B.. 34.5
G.. 33
D.. 34
A.. 34.5
Bass E to 1st fret = 35mm

On a strat, that renders the interval between the nut and the 1st fret the same as the interval between the 1st and 2nd fret. How can that EVER work. I suppose, if you play a very pigeon holed repertoire, technique and style, perhaps. I just don't see it. How much better to temper the difference across the fret board. Even if you take the example given and intonate with a capo at the 5th fret and then tune the nut, the first fret interval will be grossly off. Still, IMHO, better to temper that across all five frets. The spacing for note intervals in the nut region is just too finite to make scale adjustments there. YMMV

EDIT: P.S. I give this no more than a week before sea chief finds a "problem" with his "solution"

[Dave H]

On a strat, that renders the interval between the nut and the 1st fret the same as the interval between the 1st and 2nd fret. How can that EVER work.

You'd think that would make the first fret interval flat wouldn't you? But when you fret at the first position the string angle can tighten the string and make it sound sharp (if the action is high enough). I think that is what the nut is designed to compensate for. I'm lucky. I'm tone deaf. It would have to be nearly a semitone out before I'd notice I just set the intonation as usual at the 12th fret and make sure that the action isn't too high at the nut (as in post #26) and I'm ready to rock