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Noisy Lace Sensor pickups

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Fluoroscope 5000 View Post
    I see two wires for the coil, and one for the chassis ground. There was an exploded view on the site years ago. I guess they donít want to give anything away now. Itís really not so unusual. There are Steel plates on either side of the coil for shielding. The bobbin is the metal comb structure. The design channels the field tightly down around the sides of the pickup along the shield plates to center the field directly over the coils for improved efficiency. They need to be up close to the strings for that reason, making the neck pickup notes along the neck more imbalanced than an AlNiCo V pole pickup with a longer field throw. They are a little quieter than Fender SCís. I tried them when they first came out and was discouraged that the florescent shop lights caused so much buzz. The thin shield plates can only do so much. They are listed as having very low self resonance per inductance values. Perhaps they roll off more gradually than most pickups? They do seem midrangy, but may have stronger fundamentals than most SCís.
    Thank you for your analysis.
    So what is the bobbin metal comb structure metal type.
    It looks like it could be brass?
    So the bare wire that comes from the pickup and solders to the brass plate?
    Where does that wire go?
    Thanks,
    T
    "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
    Terry

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    • #17
      I would venture that it is Brass. That would explain the low self resonance without high inductance. I unfortunately don’t know where all the wires go. It makes no sense that they would suddenly become noisy. Sound like the owner is not telling the whole story. I think if part of the chassis were wired in line with the coil, rather than direct to ground, t would become an antenna.

      The old Lace diagram is at the bottom of post #13:
      http://www.strat-talk.com/threads/th...r-gold.385649/

      It it correctly states that hum is eliminated, and that the smaller magnetic field picks up less interference. The field doesn’t pick up anything, but the coil does. They may have a low wind count of very thin wire. I have heard the Golds are very nice from a few other players. Still, the low resonance makes the high end down, and the Steel shielding plates probably reduce highs more. The field orientation should produce strong fundamentals, though. The Brass core may boost output up to the low roll off up to the relatively low roll off point. I don’t know if 500k pots are recommended?
      Fluoroscope 5000
      Member
      Last edited by Fluoroscope 5000; 05-27-2016, 05:38 PM.

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      • #18
        I agree that the faraday cage tele neck pickup is quieter than an open strat SC pickup.
        The pickup in the patent in post 13 is the fender jaguar pickup.
        It puts the claw around a strat type pickup.

        So back to the OP question, I have no advice on how to make it quieter.
        Especially since the pickup is a single coil, and surrounded in epoxy.

        In my area, everyone takes the fender noiseless pickups out, and put in custom Single coils.
        Or a single coil in neck and middle, and a blade in the bridge.
        T
        "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
        Terry

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        • #19
          Well, for the moment I'm out of ideas. The guy who originally owned the guitar from new says it's never been touched. The new owner says he hasn't done anything to it. But the guitar has been hacked - the soldering is extremely poor. The usual too-cold-iron and no flow. Just heaped lumps with no adhesion.

          Someone had trouble with the guitar - why lift the grounds if not?

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
            The guy who originally owned the guitar from new says it's never been touched. The new owner says he hasn't done anything to it. But the guitar has been hacked - the soldering is extremely poor. The usual too-cold-iron and no flow. Just heaped lumps with no adhesion.
            Obviously, someone is not being fully candid. Maybe the new owner's buddy did something to it.
            How about this: Return the guitar, no charge for cleaning up the lousy soldering.
            Explain that the pickups are trashed because "nobody" messed with them.
            Further explain that you do not do business with weasels.

            Originally posted by Mick Bailey View Post
            Someone had trouble with the guitar - why lift the grounds if not?
            Possibly to enable series or out-of-phase wiring options. But I doubt it.

            -rb

            PS - If you're just curious, and the back of the pickup is like the last pic in post #10, it looks like you might be able to check continuity from the green wire to the "Radiant Field Barrier" TM without opening the pickup. But I assume you didn't sign up for disassembling and repairing the pickups.
            DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

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            • #21
              How can the owner trash the pickups, when they are encapsulated in epoxy?
              They either work or they don't.
              If the pickups are junk, then I contend they have always been junk.
              See pictures, post 1 & 2.
              The guts of a recent vintage Lace Sensor Gold | Fender Stratocaster Guitar Forum
              "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
              Terry

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by big_teee View Post
                How can the owner trash the pickups, when they are encapsulated in epoxy?
                Late vintage Sensors are encapsulated in epoxy. Earlier ones were not.

                Originally posted by big_teee View Post
                They either work or they don't.
                That can be said about just about anything.

                Originally posted by big_teee View Post
                If the pickups are junk, then I contend they have always been junk.
                Although neither of us has experience with Lace Sensors, the consensus among those who do have experience is that they shouldn't be noisier than other single coil pickups.

                Here's another hypothesis:
                What if these particular Sensors are epoxy encapsulated- and the epoxy has shrunk, tearing and/or dislodging wires? It's been known (or, at least, suspected) to happen. Although odds of it happening to three pickups at once are pretty low...

                Yea, I know. I'm the guy who originally posted the link to that thread.
                See last thumbnail in post #10 of this thread.
                (For some reason, the attachment manager won't let me re-post it here).

                Apologies for any confusion, red herrings, and/or agitation I may have introduced to this conversation.
                Just trying to help. Really.
                Now back to trying to squeeze in some yard work while solving neighbor's plumbing crisis.

                -rb
                Last edited by rjb; 05-28-2016, 10:43 PM.
                DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Yes you did post it in post 10.
                  I didn't see or look at it then.
                  I don't have anything else to add.
                  I would like to have a lace sensor in hand to play with, but not enough to buy one.

                  ** a side note, have you noticed we can't get totally ever get away from mr. An___ua?
                  "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
                  Terry

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by big_teee View Post
                    I don't have anything else to add.
                    Ditto.

                    Originally posted by big_teee View Post
                    I would like to have a lace sensor in hand to play with, but not enough to buy one.
                    Ditto.

                    Originally posted by big_teee View Post
                    ** a side note, have you noticed we can't get totally ever get away from mr. An___ua?
                    Yea, but that's OK. I'm not irritated by him the way some folks are.

                    -rb

                    PS: Mick, sorry for the wild goose chases.
                    DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      These pickups are not potted, but the covers are very firmly attached and quite fragile, so I've abandoned the idea of removing them to take a further look. I can get a meter probe onto the comb, though.

                      The reasoning behind the construction isn't clear to me; the brass grounding plate is insulated on rubber stand-offs that rivet through to the comb. This means the steel mounting bar that runs the entire length and width of the underside of the pickup isn't grounded. Except that it does get grounded indirectly via the pickguard foil. So why not ground it in the first place and dispense with the rubber standoffs?

                      The second puzzle is the resistance between the grounding plate and the comb. On all three pickups it's 10 Ohms - even with the coating on the comb scratched through to give good probe contact. This resistance may have developed as a result of the riveted assembly. Maybe factory-fresh pickups read close to zero.

                      I have improved the guitar quite considerably; the guitar is fitted with a Trem Setter and the two trem springs have a black oxide coating which intermittently raises the resistance between the claw and string block. In fact, measuring along the spring shows open circuit and the contact was entirely reliant on the coating being worn through to some degree. Cleaning off the coating in the contact spots has improved matters, but the greatest gain has been in setting the pickups really close to the strings - much closer than regular single-coils. The magnetic pull is very, low so no wolf-tones and the guitar is pretty quiet now, though it's still more sensitive to fluorescent lighting than the advertising would suggest.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Congratulations on your progress.
                        The grounding/shielding issues sound like a nice puzzle for some smart guy- but not for me!
                        I'd be tempted to throw in a set of GFS Neovins and call it a day.

                        Now, gotta get back to clearing the back forty.

                        -rb
                        DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Brads, or rivets in a sealed up pickup? Geeeez!

                          If it were mine I would scrap the pickups.
                          I would throw them in the case to go with the guitar.
                          Would install SCs in neck and middle, with a blade at the bridge.
                          Or if hum canceling is a big deal, go with three blades, two mild in neck and middle, and a hotter blade in the bridge.
                          But, its not mine!
                          I'm really done this time!
                          YMMV
                          GL,
                          "If Hitler invaded Hell, I would make at least a favourable reference of the Devil in the House of Commons." Winston Churchill
                          Terry

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