1 Humbucker, 1 Volume, 5-way, and interesting options

[Jason Rodgers]

I'm working on an 8-string multi-scale guitar right now, and I've decided to go with one humbucker, one volume, and a 5-way switch. I'm thinking the pickup will have about 6000 turns of 43awg with a ceramic magnet (I'm aiming for something in the neighborhood of a SD Nazgul).

Guitar Electronics has this wiring diagram for just such an occasion. The options are:
1. Series in phase
2. Single north
3. Parallel in phase
4. Single, south
5. Series out of phase

But do you think this is an interesting and/or useful variety of options (this guitar isn't for anybody, but built on spec)? I'm thinking the out of phase #5 position with the intended pickup design might be a little, well, awful. Maybe replace that one with another series in phase option, but with a small value cap in line to simulate a tone pot rolled off a bit? Any other changes you'd make?

Thanks for your thoughts!

[rjb]

I'm thinking the out of phase #5 position with the intended pickup design might be a little, well, awful. Maybe replace that one with another series in phase option, but with a small value cap in line to simulate a tone pot rolled off a bit? Any other changes you'd make?

I think series in phase, with a series cap, is a viable option. The series cap would block low freqs, thinning the tone- which would be a good thing (I think) for two somewhat overwound coils in series. It would work like the "rhythm switch" ON position of a DeArmond Rhythm Chief control box. (I'm sure there are better examples, but that's the one I know.)

Another option might be parallel out-of-phase, with a cap in series with one of the coils. That blocks lows in one coil, resulting in less cancellation of low freqs for a "fatter" more usable out-of phase sound. Bill Lawrence dubbed this scheme "half out of phase" wiring.

I don't know off hand how to wire your super switch to get there, but these might help:
https://sites.google.com/site/phoste...ms/5-way-shoop

[Mick Bailey]

My preference would be to switch in a series cap and not go for the out-of-phase position. I like the sound of a cap, especially with plenty of drive where the reduction in bass frequencies crisps everything up and reduces intermodulation. It depends on your particular style, though.

Another approach could be to switch the tone circuit from a treble cut to bass cut in position 5. You'll probably need a Superswitch to do this.

[Jason Rodgers]

Thanks for the tips, guys! I've not previously had reason to consider the use of caps in the signal chain outside of the tone control, so it's been some interesting reading on mods with the cap in series. I like the idea of having one option for treble cut, like a typical tone pot rolled down, and another position with the bass cut. And yes, a Super switch is necessary here. I'll hunt down the appropriate wiring and/or ask more questions here when I settle on some options.

I guess the next question might be: are the single coil options going to be different enough to justify taking up two notches on the switch? ie, would just one single coil setting - maybe the neck-side coil - be enough?

[Richard]

If the coils are wound identically I doubt that you would hear much difference between the two single coil options. I have a DiMarzio DLX 90 Neck pickup in the bridge position and even with the offset coil winds the difference is barely worth the trouble. I would do a test before wiring it all up, then you may have the standard 3 (series, parallel, and single) plus 2 more options. You might consider having a direct option that defeats the tone and volume controls. As far as using the switch to select between standard treble cut and a bass cut, I think you may be better served by using a push pull pot to switch between them. I see on the diagram you have a free pole waiting to make your life more confusing. You might consider having it switch the value of the controls from 500K to 250K or from 1M to 500K. These are the only pots I've found that will let me do this.

https://www.tubesandmore.com/product...ize%3DSwitched

[Mick Bailey]

A customer asked me the same thing a while back. I set up a piece of timber with a single string and tuner, and jury-rigged bridge. The setup had enough clearance to move the pickup around. I found there was the greatest difference in single-coil selection the closer the pickup got to the bridge - pretty much what you'd naturally assume. The problem was that to get meaningful tonal separation required that the pickup was too close to the bridge for general tonality. So the single-coil selection ended up being the bridge coil.

Edit, Richard makes a good point - some of the better split-coil guitars (Suhr as an example) switch a a resistor to alter the effective volume pot value. Suhr also switches the tone cap at the same time, so that the single-coil circuit is optimised. I did some work on one recently to modify the circuit to additionally cut the tone pot to 250k with the single coil (bridge) tap.

[Richard]

It makes sense that the closer you get to the bridge the 1" between the coils is a greater portion of the overall distance. I usually find bridge pickups unpleasant and prefer the coil away from the bridge.

Do you know how Suhr and Anderson switch the pot value? I use the dual 500K so I have the option but I end up with them wired to give me 1M. I could parallel them to get 250K so I have options with the same part.

[Jason Rodgers]

These are all interesting ideas I'm going to have to investigate.

Here's something I thought of on the drive to work today, using the in-line capacitor idea (both in-line with hot and ground) for all the changes. All positions start with the pickup in series, in phase:
1. "Normal"
2. .022 cap in series for bass cut.
3. .022 cap in series on one coil to cut bass on that coil.
4. .022 cap on one coil (to ground) to cut treble on that coil.
5. .022 cap (to ground) to cut treble.

(I'm suggesting a .022 cap because that seems like a middle-of-the-road choice in the diagrams I've seen for wiring the G&L style two tone pots.) So position 2 would be bright, position 5 would be rolled off, and positions 3 and 4 would have some selective EQ-ing.

Whaddayathink?

[Richard]

So is this a five way tone control? If both coils are in series how do you put a cap in series with one coil? I can see going from the series link to one end or the other, it seems like that would cut bass on one coil and treble on the other. I haven't got fancy with tone controls yet, by the time I figure out the wiring I've done enough and go with a conventional tone control. This may be the next frontier in my wiring. If I'm understanding your wiring correctly it may be just as easy to have a couple of capacitors so you can get different values.

[rjb]

So is this a five way tone control?

Effectively. I just noticed Jason's "no tone pot" design spec.

If both coils are in series how do you put a cap in series with one coil?

You can't; all three components (cap and two coils) are in series, and their order shouldn't matter.

Just to throw out some more ideas, take a gander at some of these Tele Esquire schemes.
There are some shown for 5-Way Humbucker that could work with the tone pot eliminated.
https://sites.google.com/site/phoste...teles/esquires

Have fun,
-rb

[Jason Rodgers]

So is this a five way tone control? If both coils are in series how do you put a cap in series with one coil? I can see going from the series link to one end or the other, it seems like that would cut bass on one coil and treble on the other. I haven't got fancy with tone controls yet, by the time I figure out the wiring I've done enough and go with a conventional tone control. This may be the next frontier in my wiring. If I'm understanding your wiring correctly it may be just as easy to have a couple of capacitors so you can get different values.

This is all new for me, too. What started as just a simple setup - one humbucker straight to volume... but, hmm, a couple more options might be interesting - has sent me down a rabbit hole.

So, yeah, I suppose this ends up being a sort of 5-way tone control. But instead of being like a Varitone, which uses graduated caps, this is using one cap to affect the pickup in part or in whole. I don't know yet how this would be wired up, but there bunch of ways that you can wire up a Super Switch. The last time I used a Super Switch, it took a bit of study to work out what I wanted.

You might be right about the cap in series, when the coils are already in series, not doing what I think it would do. I know just enough to make me dangerous. If your circuit is going "ground - S coil + cap - N coil + volume," would it cut the treble to the south coil? Or, like you say Richard, does it cut treble to the south coil, because the cap is on the hot side, and then cut bass to the north coil, because the cap is on the ground side?

EDIT: Saw rjb's reply. Ok, I learn, and now back to the drawing board.

EDIT2: Thanks for that link. That's a $#!? load more switching options!

[Mick Bailey]

Do you know how Suhr and Anderson switch the pot value?

Suhr switches in a parallel resistor to ground - the last one I had was 480k wired to the hot A500k volume pot lug. It does alter the pot taper though - more linear.

[Jason Rodgers]

I'm going to have to set up my test rig (got the cheap "First Act" strat) and play around with the cap in different locations and with different values. Series might be series no matter where the cap is placed, but I wonder if there is a difference if the cap is on the ground end of the pickup, versus in the middle, versus on the hot end.

[bbsailor]

I'm going to have to set up my test rig (got the cheap "First Act" strat) and play around with the cap in different locations and with different values. Series might be series no matter where the cap is placed, but I wonder if there is a difference if the cap is on the ground end of the pickup, versus in the middle, versus on the hot end.

I found a very interesting way to wire a 2 pickup Telecaster style guitar on this link: http://music-electronics-forum.com/t42809/ see post #8.

When two pickups are selected in either series or parallel (using a 4-way Telecaster selector switch) and put out of phase, an interesting notch shift occurs with only about one tenth of a turn of either stacked concentric volume 500K pot that individually controls the volume of each pickup. The pots are wired with the pickup hot output going to the pot center lug and the output taken from the outer lug for ground and the other outer lug to go to the selector switch. Use a tone pot with a push-pull DPDT to flip the phase of the neck pickup. Those choosing to not use individual volume pots attain a fixed out of phase effect by adjusting the pickup height but the variable effect of using stacked concentric volume pots adds more variety.

Joseph J. Rogowski

[Richard]

I'm going to have to set up my test rig (got the cheap "First Act" strat) and play around with the cap in different locations and with different values. Series might be series no matter where the cap is placed, but I wonder if there is a difference if the cap is on the ground end of the pickup, versus in the middle, versus on the hot end.

I might be interesting to put one end of the cap to the series link and then connect the other end to either ground or output. I need to experiment more with the tone control but usually pickup switching uses all the switching options (and my brains). Have you checked out the Fender TBX control?

The Fender TBX Tone Control, Part 1