Are Warmoth "Screamin' Deals" Necks Factory Seconds?

[bob p]

I've been thinking about building a partscaster for a while now, and the urge is getting too difficult to resist. I hate the idea of spending way too much on a project like this, so I've been looking at the Warmoth "Screamin' Deals" necks and bodies. But looking at them closely, I'm not sure that they're such a great deal.

The Screamin' Deals Bodies, for example, seem to be where they put all of the undesirable bodies that they can't unload. For example: as a rule of thumb a good Strat body should weigh in at about 4 lb. 0 oz. or thereabouts, yielding a guitar that weighs about 7.5 lb. Looking at the current inventory, the bodies look like they tend to fall into two groups:

Screamin' Deal Bodies

Group 1: hideous colors that nobody would ever want, and
Group 2: heavy bodies that nobody would ever want.

Most of those bodies that aren't painted in a hideous color seem to be on the heavy side -- 4.5 lb. up to 6+ lb. Adding 3.5 lb for the rest of the guitar, those bodies that weigh 5 to 6 lb would end up making strats that weigh 8.5 to 9.5 lb. That's a full 1 to 2 lb heavier than a "typical" strat.

So I think I've figured out that the "Screamin' Deal" bodies aren't such a great deal. They're the orphans that nobody really wants.

But what about the "Screamin' Deal" Necks? Is there anything that's "wrong" with them? Looking at the inventory, I can't spot what's wrong with them, so I'm wondering if these are also rejects in some way. As in, more likely to have fret dressing problems, more likely to require shimming or some other sort of non-obvious defect.

Does have enough experience with them to know?

Screamin' Deal Necks

[J Luth]

bob,

I am not sure if the job I just did for someone was one of the Screaming Deal necks.
It was a Strat build using Warmoth neck and body. I know he got some kind of supposed great deal on the neck, but as stated not sure if it was one of them. The body was fine but the neck was not, it was a Maple neck with Maple fretboard. I didn't check the frets before I put the finish on the neck, put the logo he wanted on the peghead, cleared over the logo and everything else. I should have checked the frets, they were horrible, the guitar could not be setup with anywhere near a reasonable action. I told him to call them rather than paying me to do a fret level and it needed a complete fret level. He claims he did call but I was not there when he called so I'll leave what he told me they said out of this.

I have done a lot of work for people that bring Warmoth parts over and never had much of a problem with the necks. Once in a great while I might find one fret down near the body that could be a bit lower.

[bob p]

thanks for the interesting post.

...I told him to call them rather than paying me to do a fret level and it needed a complete fret level. He claims he did call but I was not there when he called so I'll leave what he told me they said out of this.

If I had to guess, they said, "Once you paint it, it's yours to keep." I've read on their web site that their necks can be mock-up mounted and still qualify for a return if something is wrong, but as soon as you mount tuners to them and leave impressions, the neck is yours to keep. I'd imagine taht they'd respond the same way about finishing -- once it's finished, they won't take it back.

Was I close? If not, I can understand you not wanting to post something that you got second hand on a public forum. Would you care to send me a PM?

edit: the idea that you can't return a neck after the tuners are mounted creates a catch-22 sort of situation. I think that most people might not recognize just how bad a neck might be until they've mounted it, strung it up, and looked at the action. The problem is, to get to the point that you know that the neck is bad and has to be returned, you have to mount tuners, and once you mount tuners it's non-returnable. So you'd better figure out if the neck is bad by inspecting it before you assemble it. The problem is, I can see where many people wouldn't be able to do identify the problem until after the neck has been mounted and the guitar completely assembled. Once that happens, they're stuck.

[Chuck H]

What is a "reject" or a "second" WRT a neck??? I didn't think Warmoth would intentionally send out a neck with their name stamped on it that had problems like popped frets or a twist. Ugly paint? Sure, why not. Heavy? Eh, ok. But unplayably flawed? I don't think so. I would expect the necks to be mostly custom orders that didn't go through for one reason or another or even necks with ugly wood anomalies.?. Warmoth is a company that has built itself up with a reputation of quality. I once bought two Warmoth necks from a discount used music store that had a barrel of Warmoth pulls and "seconds". One neck had a hump that I decided was unacceptable. The other is the very best neck I've ever played and I still use it. Both were new, not pulls. How an unplayable neck with the Warmoth stamp on it got into public hands had always been a mystery to me, but J Luth's account would seem to second the experience. So... I guess they do sell their garbage sometimes? The above considerations for what MOST of the "screamin' deals" necks are is probably right, but there may be some junk in there too. In the end it's buyer beware. You don't wan't to spend a fortune on a partscaster. I understand. But you really don't want to waste money either. I bought two discount Warmoth necks for the price of one... And threw one away. You'll probably get lucky if you stick with a neck that looks, by it's features, to clearly be a special order that wasn't purchased and stay away from more standard featured necks which would seem more likely to be seconds. But there's no guarantees. I can tell you that the quality is there if you pay their premium.

[J Luth]

Bob,

The reason I am not sure about what he told me and did not post what he told me is the link posted below.

Look at the 1 year warranty.
It should have been within 30 days for the 1 year.

Warmoth Custom Guitar Parts - Warranty

[bob p]

JL, It sounds like they voided his warranty because he didn't have you finish it within 30 days of purchase. That's a published policy that's well known, but I think it's shitty of them to enforce that on their customers. I find it hard to believe that their necks should just go bad in the way you described just because they weren't finished within 30 days. If the necks are that unstable, then none of the necks that they keep in inventory would remain stable on the shelves. To me, that bad case example suggests that the Screamin' Deal necks must be seconds and/or rejects, or as Chuck said, custom orders that failed for some reason. For that to be true, they'd have to build custom necks before getting paid for them. I don't think they do that. I think you have to pay in full before they start work on any custom neck. That would imply that the Screamin' Deals are indeed seconds.

Chuck, I've been reading about W necks on other forums, like Strat Talk and TGP, and it seems that there are a LOT of people who are reporting fret problems with brand new Warmoth necks. There are people who've paid $400 and $500 for custom order necks and then ended up complaining that the fretwork was so bad that they had to pay a luthier another $150 to fix the problem for them.

I don't think that extra $150 is a problem if you buy a cheap neck, but when you're paying over $400 for a neck there should be enough quality control that someone at the factory makes sure that the neck is straight and the frets are level. But it sounds like W doesn't bother to do that, and they shove that responsibility off onto the customer. It's kind of hard to imagine paying as much or more than you'd pay for a Fender neck and then having to fix things that are wrong with it.

After reading some of the horror stories with W the expensive F guitars aren't looking that bad.

[J Luth]

Chuck,

Completely agree with you on Warmoth quality that's another reason why I didn't post what he told me. Only what I found when I assembled it.
Maybe he approached it the wrong way if he did call.

When people ask what to buy I always tell them spend the money and go to Warmoth and I always will. It's a lot less expensive than having me make them one, which I don't do much anymore and their quality has always been great. It's also less expensive going to Warmoth than buying a bargain basement brand and then having me do a fret level, fret ends and making the nut work or having to replace the nut before it's put together. That happens on just about every less expensive neck.
The neck he got was in stock not built to order so who knows.
Had it not come in their packaging I would have thought it was one of the lesser quality brands. It had Stainless Steel frets installed what a pain to get all the scratches out and polish.

[J Luth]

Bob,
I am almost certain the finish was done within the 30 days.

[bob p]

Then I'm seriously not understanding why they didn't honor his warranty claim.

[J Luth]

Bob,

In the past month or so, I have put together at last 4 guitars for people that bought Warmoth parts. This is the first serious problem. I have one friend that is constantly having me put guitars together for him or changing out necks for him and he always uses Warmoth and never problem.

$150.00 Dang, I need to double my price!

[J Luth]

Bob,

That's why I posted the warranty page. I can't figure out why they didn't warranty it. Maybe it was over the 30 days from the time he got it but it wasn't over 30 days from the time I got it.

Like I said maybe he approached them the wrong way if he called them at all.

[bob p]

I'm having reservations about the partscaster build because the more research I do, the less appealing the idea becomes.

There's the problem with the low cost necks looking like they're seconds; there's the problem with the high cost necks being high price; there's the problem with the high price necks having to be finished and W charges an extra $130 for that; after you've paid $400-$500 for a neck, then you're faced with the horror of finding out that it's got crappy fretwork and having to pay someone to fix it (or fix it yourself); then there are horror stories like yours about W not honoring their warranty; and all those problems are just with the neck.

The body is another can of worms. The low cost bodies are undesirable; you have to pay them extra to give you a custom order body that isn't heavy; Add a few minor options and a simple Alder partscaster body is at or above $300. Add another $230-$270 if you want them to finish it. Now you're looking at $600 for a body.

Now your build is already pushing $1000 and all you've got is a neck and a body. You haven't even bought pickups or any of the hardware.

Buying a real Fender neck from Fender Parts keeps looking better and better.

[Chuck H]

I wouldn't expect Warmoth necks are unstable in any way. Stored correctly you should be able to keep unfinished necks forever. And since they're Warmoth, that's what they do. The neck I'm using on my partscaster was a second pulled out of a barrel! Unfinished for who knows how long. As far as Warmoth is concerned it's still unfinished since their warranty didn't honor tung oil at the time that neck was made. Not sure if that's changed. The body is Warmoth also, but it's a paint grade two piece alder and the seam is at the bottom third and not center. It's very light weight though. I tung oiled that too Looks great to me. I went shopping there a little bit ago after reading this thread and it looks like I can a body and neck like the ones I have for $415 at their non discount price. I didn't even shop the discount stuff. I built my partscaster well over twenty years ago and it looks like I could build another today for about $75 more than it cost me then! Not bad. About $850 today total for all the same parts I used. No additional expense for finishing since I rubbed the whole thing in tung oil. Pickups are top end and the bridge and tuners are high quality, but standard fare. I know it sounds like a lot for a pretty standard strat build. Ok, it IS a lot. But I do love the guitar and have for over two decades. So that's totally worth it for me. You can do it for less to be certain. Mighty Mite necks are a lot cheaper and all I've seen have been good. Thin fingerboards though and that looks cheap. If you went with maple it wouldn't matter so much. And who cares if it's a Warmoth body? It's a block of wood. As long as the routes are correct and it's not heavy. For pickups you sure don't need to spend what I did. I put a Seymour Duncan JB mini in the bridge and Van Zants in the neck and middle (when Van Zant was the new, hot thing). Now I have custom pickups that Terry here on the forum wound for me. One thing you can't cheap out on is hardware. Plated, pot metal crap will give you no end of grief and is worth less than the packaging it comes in. If I did it again I'd probably bite the bullet and go with Warmoth again. Mostly because they're the only ones that make the neck profile I prefer.

JM2C

[bob p]

I don't doubt that Warmoth necks have to be stable; what I do take issue with is the fact that they will refuse to provide warranty on them if they are 'unfinished', as if that implies that they are unstable without a sprayed sealed finish. We know that instability is not a problem, so this amounts to a money grab by W. IMO an oiled finish should be good enough. The fact that they refuse warranty to customers who refuse to buy finish work from them gives me the impression that they're trying to jam you for an extra $120 for a 60 second shoot of lacquer, and they punish you by voiding your warranty if you refuse to be squeezed. That gives me pause. Serious pause. To me that's a red flag about how the company treats it's customers. The anecdotal stories by customers who get screwed on warranty certainly doesn't inspire trust.

An uncommon neck profile is the *only* reason I'd be interested in *any* Warmoth product. I hate skinny C and D necks and I want something of substance. That immediately renders most off the off the rack guitars out for me. Just about every company builds their inexpensive lines with skinny necks and pushes you into expensive custom shop instruments if you want a thicker neck profile. I don't want to pay huge money for an object d'art. I just want a serious player's guitar that doesn't have a cheap guitar's neck profile. Unfortunately that puts you in a position where everyone in the industry wants to squeeze you.

[Chuck H]

Well, look at it this way...

Buy an unfinished neck from W at their normal price so you can order it the way you want it. It's a partscaster so, IMHO, it doesn't need to be fancy. I like plain necks so that's $212 for maple/maple or maple/rosewood with a 59 profile, 6150SS frets and the compound radius (which I like). I'm really picky about my nut spacing and height so I'd be installing that myself as well as rubbing four coats of tung oil on it. If you want a shiny appearance but a better feel to the back you can always lacquer the headstock with a rattle can.

There are a butt load of already finished and unfinished bodies on *bay for under $200. You can probably find something you like without paying Warmoth to finish it for you. Weight? Dunno. Perhaps you'll need to write a lot of emails, but you can turn something up I'm sure.

Pickups, hardware, pickguard, pots, etc. are what they are and will probably cost about $350 give or take if you're buying quality.

So that's $762 without finishes for top notch playability and tone. Add finishes (let's go spendy and make it a burst), that means using a Warmoth body, and it jumps to $1082. Yes, you have to assemble it yourself, but that price literally represents as good a strat as you can get with cosmetics taken care of. You can't touch that price in a factory guitar of that quality and you can't touch the quality with any lower priced factory instrument.

Like I said, the way I roll is with tung oil. I like the feel on the body and neck. It's lasted for decades now and scratches can be buffed and rubbed out if your inclined (I don't do it). Any bone head can apply tung oil so it amounts to a free finish. I'd probably skip the Warmoth body too. I'd probably shop hard and ask questions and get an unfinished body for a hundy (Taking a small chance there could be routing issues). So "my" price is $395 less ($687). I don't have a burst finish, there's no warranty on my neck and I'll need to do a little more work, but otherwise it's the same guitar with the same playability and tone.

IMHO there's just no point at all in doing it if any of the parts compromise quality. So, depending on what you want in extras the cost is between $687 and $1082 for a partscaster. Not ANY partscaster, as in "I put a Warmoth neck on a Squire body and replaced the neck pickup with a John Mayer special. Derrrr." but a partscaster that any guitar player would love and you love even more because you selected every part with personal preference in mind.

This is the bottom line of you propose to do.

EDIT: Don't even consider a cheap "kit". You might just as well go buy the Samick guitar and set it up as best you can. It'll probably be "ok" but it will never be a partscaster. Those have Warmoth necks. And I was surprised at the price of Mighty Mite necks now! Just as much as Warmoth products.