Increasing treble/bite and reducing midrange in humbucker

[Chuck H]

How did you simulate the secondary resonance/antiresonance around 100kHz? Very curious!

I simulated each coil. One at 4.1k and plugged in 2H and the other at 7.1k and plugged in 3H. Then I offset the phase 5* for relative proximity. I did say it was a rough simulation

The gain in the resonant peak should be pretty close anyway.

EDIT: Oh... Capacitance was plugged in at 80p/120p and (IIRC) the output of the 4.1k coil was set at something like .1V and the 7.1k was .2V

[Helmholtz]

I simulated each coil. One at 4.1k and plugged in 2H and the other at 7.1k and plugged in 3H. Then I offset the phase 5* for relative proximity. I did say it was a rough simulation

The gain in the resonant peak should be pretty close anyway.

EDIT: Oh... Capacitance was plugged in at 80p/120p and (IIRC) the output of the 4.1k coil was set at something like .1V and the 7.1k was .2V

Thanks, Chuck.
My question was not meant to criticize your simulation - quite the contrary. Will send a PM if you don't mind.

[Chuck H]

Will send a PM if you don't mind.

I don't mind at all.

[Chuck H]

It looks like there was an error in my simulation. I left both coils with the same output voltage when in fact the smaller coil would have a lower output. I think the demonstration is still significant. Here's the schematic I used:

[Tone Meister]

One sure way to find out if it is the pickup or the maple guitar is to swap the bridge pickups of the two guitars and see if the problem stays with the maple guitar or the pickup!!!

Jim, actually this was the very first step I took. I have four of these pickups. Two are in other guitars, and I have another new one for an upcoming build. Tried two identical pickups and both exhibit increased midrange, whixh in turn leaves me wanting a tad more trebke bit.

[Tone Meister]

Maple, being a fairly heavy, dense and hard wood is not known to suppress highs.

I don't remember stating that highs are suppressed. I reported an increased midrange response and that I desire a little more treble/bite and to scoop the midrange slightly.

[Tone Meister]

It looks like there was an error in my simulation. I left both coils with the same output voltage when in fact the smaller coil would have a lower output. I think the demonstration is still significant. Here's the schematic I used:

Chuck,
I have NOT been ignoring your efforts with predicting the circuit changes. I will take time and draw the exact circuit as it is wired and I can measure the pickup's inductance, capacitance, and resistance/impedance very accurately if you want me to.

[Helmholtz]

I don't remember stating that highs are suppressed. I reported an increased midrange response and that I desire a little more treble/bite and to scoop the midrange slightly.

I could imagine that maple emphasizes high mids. But unfortunately I don't know of a way of reducing mids without reducing highs as well by PU construction/materials. That's why I proposed ideas to increase highs relative to mids.

[Chuck H]

Chuck,
I have NOT been ignoring your efforts with predicting the circuit changes. I will take time and draw the exact circuit as it is wired and I can measure the pickup's inductance, capacitance, and resistance/impedance very accurately if you want me to.

Those measurements would make for a more accurate simulation, but I don't think it's necessary. The increase in dB if the tone control were disabled for that pickup would be about the same. Whenever you get to the drawing I'll have a look.

[Chuck H]

I don't remember stating that highs are suppressed. I reported an increased midrange response and that I desire a little more treble/bite and to scoop the midrange slightly.

Yes, I know. But there's what we can do (increase the treble so the mids are less in ratio, though this affects LF by the same ratio ) and there's what we can't do (Decrease mids without decreasing HF). There are control circuits to cut mids also. But it's another knob you'd have to adjust whenever that pickup was selected. And IME they don't work very well before you've cut A LOT of mids. Sort of making them a one trick pony.

[Tone Meister]

Well, maybe I could help, but now I would rather not.

John,
I hope I haven't put you off somehow with my comments. I think it would be helpful for you to consider, though, that I am a pro musician since 1978 and have a solid working knowledge if what I have, what I want, and a basic understanding of how to get there. I am very much splitting hairs here with an instrument I'm trying to fine tune to my tastes.

Some comments above do lead me to believe that the poster hasn't read the info I provided in its entirety, instead just asking basic questions or offering random advice without considering my real world, boots on the ground input. After all, I am the guy on the ground here and know what I'm hearing.

Most players, including many pros, would be hapoy if I handed them this guitar. So yes, I am most definitely splitting hairs here with THIS instrument. But bear in mind that this is one guitar among 23 others, and I need for it to work in my touring and studio rigs without having to make adjustments to accommodate it.

So if my comments come across a little curt, I apologize. But please realize that I'm not some kid with a MIM Strat trying to get his ceramic single coils to sound like a humbucker. I came here because I know the help I need is here. These guys know their shit and share it unselfishly. Can we just continue to give and take without being pissed off?

[Tone Meister]

Yes, I know. But there's what we can do (increase the treble so the mids are less in ratio, though this affects LF by the same ratio ) and there's what we can't do (Decrease mids without decreasing HF). There are control circuits to cut mids also. But it's another knob you'd have to adjust whenever that pickup was selected. And IME they don't work very well before you've cut A LOT of mids. Sort of making them a one trick pony.

So are you telling me that you are fresh out of miracles Chuck?

[Tone Meister]

OK now to the report from last night show. Playing through a healthy blackface DeluxenReverb, actually the guitar performed very well and the treble was increased to a satisfactory level as a result of having lowered the PU and changing to the shorter hex screws.

I do plan to lower the pickup just a little more and raise the hex screws a little more. After assessing those changes in the real world, I absolutely plan to try disconnecting the tone control, but while I have the cacity open I will switch the tone pot over to 500KL as suggested just in case I decide to reconnect it at a later time.

I think I'm headed in the right direction for sure.

[Tone Meister]

I could imagine that maple emphasizes high mids. But unfortunately I don't know of a way of reducing mids without reducing highs as well by PU construction/materials. That's why I proposed ideas to increase highs relative to mids.

Trust me, I am listening and will implent some of these changes incrementally after assessing the changes I've already made.

FWIW: highs were increased without a relative increase in midrange just hy changing the pole screws over to shorter screws with a different head AND by lowering the pickup slightly.

[rjb]

From the Peanut Gallery

...want to increase the treble bite and slightly scoop the midrange ... while keeping total output the same or slightly lower.

Alternate interpretation... "I want this pickup to sound more like a single coil and less like a humbucker."(?)

• Mismatched coils (7.1k and 4.1k)
• Slug coil (7.1k coil) oriented inside
• Fillister screws 3/4" long (4.1k coil) oriented bridge side

I really want to keep this pickup because it mates very well with the the two single coils (HSS) and the split (7.1k) tone is perfect with the middle pickup. The midrange is a bit overbearing when the humbucker is used by itself though

Here's a suggestion so simple it can't possibly work... but since its easily reversible, it may be worth a shot:
Just remove the screws from the 4.1K coil! If the holes bother you, cover them with dot stickers.

Predictions:
Split tone unaffected. Humbucking not noticeably affected. Total output slightly lower. The 4.1K air coil, having lowest possible inductance, will yield highest possible resonant frequency for this configuration. String ~sampled at one location -> little/no comb filtering -> perceived as "more bite". If still not enough bite, flip the pickup to orient 7.1K coil to bridge side.

OTOH, I'm a total dilettante at this stuff - so consider the source.

-rb

PS - As you've already alluded, just changing pickup height (and screw height- if you have adjustable screws) can have significant affect on tone.