threaded neck inserts

[tedmich]

So when I used threaded inserts on a big neck previously it was one I was building from scratch so I actually used 10-32 stainless T nut type threaded insert like this

that I milled into a truncated circle that I fixed into a routed groove inside the neck before gluing the fretboard down. They float a little in their while being fixed to rotation and provided pretty good bolt alignment with healthy clamping force. My neck pocket didn't fit very well but it was my first time... wish I'd taken more (any) pictures but I still might get a chance if they screw up!

Fast forward a decade and the new neck is a gorgeous wenge and bloodwood Warmoth Gecko 6 (sans lizard) with the biggest SS frets they sell. Needless to say I can't do the old threaded inserts so I'm trying new ones threaded into the wenge

these dinky Tap Lok inserts have a radial through hole at their end which establishes a thread cutting effect when installed into a precise 9/32 whole, drilled to only about 3/8" depth (thus the real fitted depth stop) The neck end 3 holes on the Gecko have a ton of meat but the body end 3 neck holes have only 16.5 mm of wood. I had to take great pains to jig up the neck for straight holes and inserts, and decided on a dab of 2 part epoxy on each insert to seat them.

If they pull out I can always fill with a dowel and re-drill, we'll find out when the 1.25" 10-32 bolts and concave brass/black dress washers arrive this week!

[mozz]

I use these on a few builds. 79c each
https://www.albanycountyfasteners.co...2-p/117010.htm
And this screw. @1 3/4"
https://www.albanycountyfasteners.co...p/10200000.htm

[tedmich]

ohh brass inserts! Eric Johnson would approve! I assume the neck wood was something a little soft to take those huge threads?

[Fluoroscope 5000]

Not sure what you are trying to achieve with inserts. Coupling force is still limited by whatever the screw heads are sitting on. I would not rely on epoxy to hold inserts in either way. It might work, but it would suck if the neck fell off and cracked on the floor during a gig or what not.

I've used washers and brackets in the neck pocket which both increases structural rigidity (via force multiplied and only at the edges of the neck heal) and reduces neck pocket surface area damping. If anything, it's a lot easier and less invasive than installing inserts. The results depend on the material used, but there's generally an improvement in low end warmth/punch. I could even hear a slight difference in high end in the DI recordings between Steel and Brass washers. Brass is softer than Steel, so there's more high end damping. I eventually made some brackets out of Lexan which seem to mainly reduce the metallic upper-mids without really affecting the higher highs. It makes sense because the weaker higher vibrations won't have enough energy to vibrate the neck anyway, so they aren't affected. Some may claim it's confirmation bias, but my DI recordings reveal otherwise. It's fairly subtle, but undeniable -- Steel washers making the most obvious tonal difference. I actually don't think Brass reduces the harsher sounding 3~3.5kHz range (as seen in the updated F-M loudness curve), but T6 Aluminum might. So, I'd either go with Stainless Steel washers for an overall sustain and clarity improvement or cut out a bracket to shape the tone from one of the plastics I recommend here:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...HM?usp=sharing

[mozz]

The brass inserts I used went into maple necks. 2 were teles and 2 strats. You need to drill the correct size holes with a stop and then thread them in with a big ass slotted screwdriver. Slightly lower than flush. I may have used titebond on the threads, can't remember what I did yesterday. Heavy tele (reg ash) has incredible sustain, maybe too much.

[tedmich]

Not sure what you are trying to achieve with inserts. Coupling force is still limited by whatever the screw heads are sitting on. I would not rely on epoxy to hold inserts in either way. It might work, but it would suck if the neck fell off and cracked on the floor during a gig or what not

Grade 8 10-32 fasteners (6) are sitting on top of 6 large brass 14mm OD concave washers. These bolts will clamp at 1800 lbs each if tightened to 68 in lbs dry, but the inserts will never hold! Other method I mentioned, with captive insert between neck and fingerboard will clamp this hard but would crush figured maple body even with big washers. We'll just keep it tight!

Wow you take your tone minutia seriously! I was kidding earlier about Eric Johnson's reported preference for brass screws in the back of his OD pedal! I just want solid but am exploring a 1/4 CF slab to tie bridge to neck joint, maybe on fretless version.

FYI I have also been known to run 35" scale bass as an octave guitar tuned up (from std) to D or even E, with string tension near 300 lbs for the latter, and the two truss rods...a bit stressed.

"too much sustain" ??? -confused-
https://www.sustainiac.com/

[mozz]

Well i kind of meant the note is ringing out, and when you do a fingering change it was accentuating any small mistakes i made. Where as the note decays and you switch to the next chord, kind of covers things up. Could have helped with note clarity or definition too.

[Fluoroscope 5000]

Well i kind of meant the note is ringing out, and when you do a fingering change it was accentuating any small mistakes i made. Where as the note decays and you switch to the next chord, kind of covers things up. Could have helped with note clarity or definition too.

What could have helped with note clarity?

Yeah, you may not be able to reduce the string noise that accentuates sloppiness, but you might try one of the softer plastics I suggested for a bracket in my link if you want less harsh upper-mids. String noise can have to do with the pickup peaks. I have found that strong peaks in the 4~6kHz "presence" range can makes it more obvious. One thing you could do is use a very low capacitance cable to reduce the peak and extend the highs. Turning the tone knob down just a bit might work to. Otherwise, you'll probably have to configure it so the peaks are well below 3kHz to make a significant difference, but that really limits the articulation. The most ear-fatiguing peak would be in the 3~3.5kHz range.

[Ethinksthat]

10-32 Phillips Oval Head Machine Screws

[mozz]

#8-32 Brass Threaded Inserts for Wood
E-Z Lok Number | Internal Thread Size: #400-008 | #8-32
https://www.albanycountyfasteners.com/8 ... 117004.htm


#8-32 Stainless Steel Phillips Oval Head Machine Screws
Diameter - Thread Pitch: #8-32
Phillips Oval Head Machine Screw 18-8 SS - #8-32 x 1-3/4"
Sku #3580092 Size #8-32 x 1-3/4"
https://www.albanycountyfasteners.com/P ... 580000.htm



The larger size but like i said these get pretty close to the edge if the wood.
https://www.albanycountyfasteners.com/1 ... 117010.htm
https://www.albanycountyfasteners.com/P ... 200000.htm and those are 1 3/4 length also.