Les Paul Wiring

[spartadrive_in]

Is the 50s style wiring(see image) setup for independent volume or master volume(when in middle position)? I want to wire it up with Independent volume/tone(in the mid. pos.).

Thanks.

P.S. I've looked at the 60s and modern wiring schemes, I was wondering where in the circuit does it change it to either master or independent?

[rf7]

It's set up for independent volume, not a master volume. If you turn one of the volume knobs all of the way down, it will kill the output of both pickups, in the middle position. None of the standard Gibson wiring schemes for a Les Paul has a Master Volume.

I suppose you could wire a guitar up with a master volume, but you'd either have to add another pot to the guitar or else one of the pickup volume pots would be sacrificed for a master volume pot.

[spartadrive_in]

No I have seen on some modern ones that
"Either Volume pot acts as a Master Volume WHEN switch is in middle position."

Now there are others that in the MIDDLE Position both Volume pots work independently i.e. allowing you to "blend" the output of each p/up.
------so where can I find that diagram?

[jack briggs]

It's easy. Just switch the output of each volume from the center lug to the left side lug, and pickup lead (input) to the center lug.

The downside of this is that you'll have more hum and noise at zero volume on any pickup selection.

[spartadrive_in]

Thanks. Any way we can solve some of the noise then?

[David Schwab]

Thanks. Any way we can solve some of the noise then?

It's really not an issue. This is how Rics are wired as well as Jazz Basses.

I wire all my two volume guitars and basses like that. I don't get any noise.

I had my '81 LP wired like this, and I removed one tone control, made the remaining control a master, and put a 6-position Varitone in its place.

That was a cool guitar!

[jack briggs]

Not that I know of. Since that wiring scheme puts the output on the far left of the element, it's not being shunted to ground as the control is turned to zero, rather the input is being shunted. Wiring the standard way eliminates the zero position noise, but at the expense of tying both controls to each other. Since either one at zero would shunt the output to ground, you have no signal. The ground being the common connection to all of the controls, if that makes semse.

[jack briggs]

David,

Tell me how you can do that without any noise. Every LP that I've worked with wired that way would be noisy since the output was basically "open" with volumes at zero, not shunted to ground. Could it come down to just the amount of wire in a LP (about 3 feet)?

[David Schwab]

David,

Tell me how you can do that without any noise. Every LP that I've worked with wired that way would be noisy since the output was basically "open" with volumes at zero, not shunted to ground. Could it come down to just the amount of wire in a LP (about 3 feet)?

It's not open at all. When the volume is at zero, the pickup is shunted to ground instead of the input of the amplifier. There is still a load on the amp's input from the pot, and the pickup is still in the circuit, but has it's output shunted to ground.

This is the way Fender Jazz Basses are wired, and if anything, they are quietest when the volumes are on zero!

The only downside is a slight dulling of the pickup's tone as you turn the volume down.

[jack briggs]

It's not open at all. When the volume is at zero, the pickup is shunted to ground instead of the input of the amplifier. There is still a load on the amp's input from the pot, and the pickup is still in the circuit, but has it's output shunted to ground.

This is the way Fender Jazz Basses are wired, and if anything, they are quietest when the volumes are on zero!

The only downside is a slight dulling of the pickup's tone as you turn the volume down.

Okay, there is a load equal to the value of the pot, but it still is much quieter to wire the pickup to the left leg of the pot and output to the wiper.

[Sweetfinger]

Sometimes I'll wire one volume pot (usually the neck pickup) with the lead to the center lug, and the other pot as a standard voltage divider with the lead to the outside lug. Basically decide which volume is going to work best for blending without acting as a 'master' volume.

Usually the noise that comes from wiring to the center lug is not an issue in the center position, because one or both pickups are still mostly on(who's turning both volumes all the way down in the center position on a les paul?) The problem comes when you go to do volume swells, or on/off toggle switch effects on either the bridge or neck alone.

A more complicated fix, which I haven't actually tried, is to use a multi-pole switch to change how the pots were wired depending on position. Dimarzio sells a 4 pole double throw toggle that should work. A super strat or rotary should work also.

Another way is to change out one of the volumes for a blend/balance pot and have one master volume.

[David Schwab]

I still don't see an issue. I can turn both pickups off on my bass and I don't get any noise at all.

One way you are shorting the amp input to ground, and the other way you are shorting the pickup to ground.

[Sweetfinger]

I still don't see an issue. I can turn both pickups off on my bass and I don't get any noise at all.

One way you are shorting the amp input to ground, and the other way you are shorting the pickup to ground.

If you don't get any noise with that type of wiring, you are very, very lucky and should thank the hum and buzz gods, because your experience is atypical. The fact that most amps have shorting jacks for the input should tell you that there IS a noise issue. When you are shorting the pickup to ground, you have essentially, a cable with nothing connected except a 250 or 500 K resistor from tip to ground. To be fair, it isn't a great deal of noise, but noticeable and annoying, especially with modern high gain amps.

[David Schwab]

It's not just me... there are dozens of instruments wired this way.

A good example is a Fender Jazz Bass. The only two modes where they don't hum is both pickups on full, or both pickups turned off.

[Sweetfinger]

It's not just me... there are dozens of instruments wired this way.

A good example is a Fender Jazz Bass. The only two modes where they don't hum is both pickups on full, or both pickups turned off.

Yes, a Jazz Bass is an excellent example. The one I just pulled out and plugged in.. with the volumes all down.....hums... just like they all do. Short the tip to ground, and all is silent.