Stainless fret wire

[Chuck H]

I know this is mostly an electronics forum. But I hang over at "Guitar amplifiers". So this seems like a good group to ask:

Stainless steel fret wire? I know it's harder to do fretwork, but how hard? I mean, is it too hard to make it worth using. I like the idea of not wearing out frets as fast. Also, I've read that it is harder to install and more springy. So frets "popping" can be a problem. I'm sure this has alot to do with the quality of the installation and properly radiusing the frets. But I'm looking at buying a Warmoth neck (they offer stainless as an option) and they use a compound radius. I really doubt they radius each fret for it's slot. So this could be a concearn.

I'd love to hear from anyone who has practical experience with stainless fret wire. Pros / cons.

Thanks

Chuck

[jrfrond]

Wears forever. Bends like glass. Tough on tools! Count of using diamond leveling and crowning files. Soundwise, it's got more snap that it's more traditional 18% nickel-silver brethren.

[Chuck H]

Where do you get diamond crowning files? Or do you just do it the hard way with a small flat or triangle needle file? I have done it, but it's much harder to do it that way.

Ever hear of any trouble with frets popping?

Thanks

Chuck

[spud1950]

Where do you get diamond crowning files?

Stewart-McDonald has them.
Diamond Fret Files

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting...ret_Files.html

Diamond Levelers

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Fretting..._Levelers.html

[Sir Cuitous]

You can work it with standard fretting tools (not diamond) and just a little more effort. You should be precise with the radiusing of the wire to avoid the ends lifting. Frets can be adjusted slightly for each slot before pressing them in. Stainless does sound different! I fretted a maple neck with standard wire and a few stainless to check the tone. The stainless frets had a much more pronounced treble tone. VERY bright. If that's not what you want tone wise, then beware.

[Chuck H]

Excellent. Thanks guys. I won't be installing these myself, Just level and recrown. I've done fret jobs and refrets but only for myself. I do a good job if I do say so myself. But because I'm not a luthier and I don't do it every day it's slow and tedious. That and tendonitis in my hands makes it hard to do some things now (thankfully playing isn't a problem). Warmoth installes them for $30 US. Seems like a deal. Their warranties can be a little funny so I'll check that before I buy.

Thanks

Chuck

[David Schwab]

There's also another fret wire; Evo gold fretwire sold at Luthier's Mercantile. Its hardness is between nickel silver and stainless. It's gold colored.

This is what they say about it:

If working with stainless seems a little daunting, check out our new Evo gold fretwire. It is a copper alloy that has been used for years in the optical industry. It contains no nickel and therefore meets the "nickel free" European standard. It stands the test of time and can really dress up your guitar. With a Vicker's hardness of HV5/250, it is harder than our nickel/silver wire (HV5/200), but softer than the stainless (HV5/300). This wire is not plated; it is gold all the way through and retains the gold color once the frets are dressed.

[jrfrond]

The sound of SS frets does offer a sonic option to a player who feels that his RW FB axe is a little dull on top.

FYI- MusiKraft offers this option as well.

Personally, I use the diamond tools so I don't dull my old trust mill-smooth fret leveler that I made myself over twenty years ago. The diamond tools actually make final polishing a bit tougher because they actually scratch and score. They do not "cut".

[David Schwab]

I use a mill file as well. I've been using one of those mill files with the wood handle from Stew-Mac since the early 90's.

I haven't done any SS frets yet. Not sure I want to be bothered either!

[jrfrond]

If you do Dave, make sure you charge extra. Definitely more labor-intensive.

SS fretwire does have practical applications, but not so much that I've given up on the good ol' 18%NS stuff.

[voodoochild]

#1 on charging more! A lot More! I used to install SS for people and quit doing it because it destroyed my tools so quickly. Especially bound fingerboards using my fret tang nipper. About 2-3 SS fret jobs and that tool is toast. At $45 a pop it was time for me to stop. It was either offer SS for anything or nothing at all. Fret tools are very expensive (as are any specialty tools) and if I find something that is aggressively tearing up my tools, I just won't do it.

[David Schwab]

I'm going to start offering Evo gold wire, and when I run out of nickel silver might switch to it, but I have a LOT of NS fret wire. I bought pounds of it back in the 90's.

[jack briggs]

I've fretted about 50 guitars with stainless steel fretwire. I do not use any different tools for working the wire and have not noticed any appreciable added wear on my tools. Especially the fret end nipper. My fret crowning file is wearing, but this is to be expected. The nice thing is that the filings don't load up the file, as they do with nickel silver wire.

If you're only getting a few necks worth of use out of a tool, I'd question the quality of said tool. It is certainly more economical to pay a little more for a good tool than to pay less and have to replace more often.

As for the hardness difference between the materials, the hardness is measured on the Vickers scale. 18% nickel silver wires come in on average at about VH5/200. Evo gold wire is about VH5/250, or 25% harder. Stainless wires average about VH5/300 or about 50% harder than nickel silver.

When using stainless wire one must pay greater attention to the accurate radiusing of the board, as nickel silver wire can "adapt" to minute variations in the radius of the board, whereas stainless steel wire is not as conforming. The end result is worth the extra efforts in installing stainless wire as the lifespan is greatly increased.

I don't notice any appreciable tonal difference (at least not enough to deter it's use). And the feel is outstanding. Strings bend like butter and feel slick and smooth on the frets. Of course this depends upon the quality of the fret job. Polishing stainless frets is more labor intensive than nickel silver. The possibility of stainless frets lasting several times as long as nickel silver is a no-brainer for me. I'm not trying to take work from repair shops but if you bought tires for your car that could go 300,000 miles, would you hesistate?

[Sir Cuitous]

I gotta agree with Jack - except for the tonal difference. At least on the necks I'm working on (quarter sawn flame maple), I can hear a fairly significant difference. Still, I am planning on using SS for an upcoming maple tele style neck for one of my own guitars.

[Chuck H]

When using stainless wire one must pay greater attention to the accurate radiusing of the board, as nickel silver wire can "adapt" to minute variations in the radius of the board, whereas stainless steel wire is not as conforming.

This is my concearn. The Warmoth neck has a compound radius and I doubt they radius each fret accordingly. I don't want to be dealing with rattling and popping fret ends as a result.

FWIW I don't mind the extra work on the level, recrown and polish. I do have some experience in this area and I also make a few knives now and then. So I'm familiar with filing and polishing much harder steels than these frets are made of. Besides, if I can do the work once and get five times the life out of my frets, I don't mind spending three times as long working them over. Thats an economy in my book.

Chuck