Searching for that great Strat tone

[David Schwab]

David,
Thanks for the feedback . Didn't mean to put down your pickup.... By hi-fi I meant it sounds like you're playing your guitar plugged into a solid state home stereo system.

That wasn't a totally clean tone, but it wasn't a real amp either. That was a clean twin patch in my Roland VM-3100 mixer. But thats the tone you would get with an amp played very clean.

Of course I'm used to hearing an amp's influence on a pickup's/guitar's tone, and that is the only true and useful reference I have;

Right, but then when you go to a store to try guitars out, you don't have your amp to hear them through. I first see how they sound unplugged. If they don't sound good that way, an amp wont help. Then I see how the pickups are. The tone you hear clean, is the tone of the pickups. So you have to figure out what will work for you.

I recently wound a high output humbucker for my Charvel, and even though it sounded great distorted, it was too dark sounding clean. So I knew I would have issues with it when I wanted a bright bridge humbucker tone.

It shouldn't matter if the amp is tube or solid state either, you can still hear the tone of the guitar. There's a lot of great recordings done on SS gear. Listen to all that ZZ Top stuff from the 80's... it was all done with a Scholz Rockman! All those Brain May solos are done on a SS hi-fi amp... the Deacy Amp. My buddy has one of the Vox versions of the Deacy, and it sounds exactly like May when I played a Les Paul with the neck pickup's tone all the way off through the thing.

I do own a big Mesa tube bass amp, but I never use it anymore. I only ever play guitar in the studio, so I haven't owned an amp in a long time (the little Crate amp I have notwithstanding)

You seemed to be tracking with me earlier and then even produced a guitar/pickup that has some of that "hollowness" quality to it...... which is awesome..... but now are you telling me that every guitar you play has that characteristic because it's in your hands?

What I was saying is that was the most generic of pickups, and as long as it's not wound too hot, you get that tone, if the guitar sounds that way.

But if you play a lot of guitars, and you can't get that tone from them, something's not right. I'll be the first to say pickups make a big difference in tone, but I've gotten that tone out of a bunch of different guitar/pickup combinations. I was going to put a humbucker at the neck on my Charvel, but I liked the tone from the DiMarzio Solo Pro in a customer's guitar so much, I decided to stick a single coil at the neck, and really, I pulled one out of a junk box. I made a number of changes to it, but I'm sure it sounded pretty much the same before hand.

I dont' disagree that guitarists have a certain sound unique to themselves, ... All I'm trying to say is that the guitars sound different, too. You evidently have just proved that point by demonstrating this on the mutt Charvel of yours.
Chevy.

Sometimes it's something really simple... some players get in their mind that their tone controls need to be this way or that, and they need this gauge strings, or what ever, and that's not the tone that's in that guitar. I just swapped the bridge humbucker on the Charvel for some old Fender humbucker that I also had in the junk box, and it works much better with that guitar. But it's not a great sounding pickup on it's own.

And the fact that I'm playing a mutt... don't get sucked into the whole Fender makes great guitars thing. They did once, and now they are fairly pedestrian. Some are good, some not so good. Sometimes the tone will come from the most unlikely of places. I had a cheap plywood body Hondo II P bass copy once that someone gave me. I changed the hardware and pickups, and it was a great bass. I'm fairly happy when I get a tone I like from what ever guitar I'm using. It might be a different tone from another guitar, but that's OK. I play the Charvel more than my hand made set neck Tele, just because it has a certain vibe I like. I've had the stock Jackson pickups, EMG's, Gibson Dirty Fingers, a DiMarzio Super Distortion, etc. And each time it still has the same basic tone.

So maybe try some non Fender guitars, and you might have better luck. You never know!

[voodoochild]

I have to say that these guys who are getting the great tone is because they are using their AMP to shape their sound. It took me forever as a player to realize this, but really good lower output pickups and a really good tube amp will give you all the Hendrix, SRV, etc sounds you want. Stay away overwound pickups as they can make a good amp sound like shit IMO.

[LtKojak]

Originally Posted by Chevy
that "hollowness" and chime that I don't know any other way of describing.

I by chance got something that helped my Squier Std Strat to get that "hollowness": I've put a metal plate to all three p'ups and it made it sound... "better". And by "better" I mean I've nailed John Mayer's strat recorded sound.

The p'ups are these:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electron...e_Pickups.html

At first I didn't care that much for the neck and middle ones, but the bridge one is excellent (I've got the hotter of the two) from the get go.

A friend of mine gave me these baseplates for strat p'ups that got from this german guy: http://www.singlecoil.com/shop.html (choose "baseplates") and I've put'em on all three p'ups... they made sound the neck and the middle p'ups a LOT better. I didn't noticed a big change on the bridge one, it still sounded great.

In the states, the only one I know sells baseplates for strat p'ups is Lindy Fralin; you should visit his site.

Hope that helps,

[Chevy]

Sometimes it's something really simple... some players get in their mind that their tone controls need to be this way or that, and they need this gauge strings, or what ever, and that's not the tone that's in that guitar...
And the fact that I'm playing a mutt... don't get sucked into the whole Fender makes great guitars thing. They did once, and now they are fairly pedestrian. Some are good, some not so good. Sometimes the tone will come from the most unlikely of places...
So maybe try some non Fender guitars, and you might have better luck. You never know!

Right..... I stumbled across a tone setting on my amp one day that made me take notice of a cool tone.... sorta shades of the tones like what I'm after, by just dialing OUT the middle on one channel. Haven't had time to explore this yet...Kinda surprised me, thought it would be all about the middle. (Maybe need to try a graphic EQ). I may fall into the "tone controls need to set this way" category...
And yes, I'm a Fender fan, perhaps blindly so. Lots and lots of junk out there, and trial and error via Ebay is not a very fruitful course to take. Wish I could afford to check out an Anderson, Suhr, whatever... some of those units guitarists seem to drool over.

[Chevy]

I have to say that these guys who are getting the great tone is because they are using their AMP to shape their sound. It took me forever as a player to realize this, but really good lower output pickups and a really good tube amp will give you all the Hendrix, SRV, etc sounds you want. Stay away overwound pickups as they can make a good amp sound like shit IMO.

Yes..... like I mentioned, one day I was tweeking my old Bandmaster and dialed OUT the mids on one channel, and got a great "new" tone from my amp.... this was unexpected. Sounds kinda dumb, but I've just never totally dialed out the mids like that before... (or never noticed if I did). Just didn't "make sense" to do that, I guess. And no further time to explore this yet, but we may be onto something... time to start doing a little more fiddlin' with what I've got... thanks!

[Chevy]

I by chance got something that helped my Squier Std Strat to get that "hollowness": I've put a metal plate to all three p'ups and it made it sound... "better". And by "better" I mean I've nailed John Mayer's strat recorded sound.

The p'ups are these:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Electron...e_Pickups.html

At first I didn't care that much for the neck and middle ones, but the bridge one is excellent (I've got the hotter of the two) from the get go.

In the states, the only one I know sells baseplates for strat p'ups is Lindy Fralin; you should visit his site.

Hope that helps,

Woah..... very cool!! Now see, that's not something I would've done... just buy some generic pup's like that... but the results seem to be surprising.
The base plate I idea is awesome, too. Wonder if I could just make some up....
Anyhow, on the Fralin site they're $10. each, and claim that it just affects the bass, not the mids or highs... so this again may just be an EQ thing...
Thanks for the tips!

[srvyjm]

Dude,
I'm not sure what is so complictated here. ANY strat with real single coil pickups (not noiseless Cra@) will produce glorious tone in the fifth and forth positions (neck and neck/middle) on ANY Fender amp with a Ibanez Tube Screamer or decent overdrive pedal in front of it. My personal favorite it eh MJM Blues Devil, beats my TS-808 every day and I leave it on all the time. Just perfect tone, all day long. Very responsive to the volume knob on the guitar.

If you've had Strats and Vibrolux's you should already be there. Spend time learning the nuances of a players vibrato and where they play on the strings. Really, this isn't mysterious or elusive. You have the tools at your disposal, spend time mastering what you have. Gear alone isn't going to solve your problems, technique and subtly will.

[daz]

I know and love that tone. unfortunatly it's a product of the amp as much or more than the strat. i have gotten it in spades with one amp and the same strat that didn't get it at all with a different amp. In fact, i've been building my own amps for the last couple years and heard that sound come then go as i change the circuit around. i'll tell you one thing thats gets it incredibly well Take RAT pedal with the gain fairly low, the tone at full bright, output normal, into a VERY clean amp with the tones on the amp turned to counteract the rats' tone being on 10. Put a clean boost in front of the RAT to drive it, particularly a tube screamer with the output on 10 and the gain at zero. tone set to taste. Then finally readjust the rat's distortion till you g=have just the amount you want. It will end up being very low because the clean boost hitting the RAT's input drives the heck out of it. It's not a setting thats usefull for anything other than fairly high to high gain leads. But try it on the neck pickup and do some 12th fret soloing and i think you'll agree it's at least as much if not more of that tone than SRV got. I chased that tone for many years. but that was the only way i was sure to get it in spades.

[BarryW]

sure - Practise.

;^}

[Steve Conner]

Did Chevy ever find his holy grail of tone?

The nicest Strat tones I heard in recent memory were on Bill Perry's Live In NYC album.

[billyz]

From Reading the previous posts I know I am will be the exception, But. The very best sounding Stratocastors I have played and or owned have all been early Swamp Ash with Maple necks. 54,55, and 56, Woody and Warm with everything you could ever want in a Strat. Many newer Ash bodies have been less than good though. I have owned over a dozen various precbs strats of all flavors, My next Favorite is the Earliest Slab Rosewood boards then the Thinner veneer board strats.

As for Pickups , the best I have heard are the Lindy Fralin models. They are the closets to my favorite vintage ones. And every time I outfit them in a newer guitar it comes up a couple notches. I have not liked any of the current Fender made pickups, especially the Texas specials. The best thing you can do for an SRV model is change the pickups. Those overwinds don't do it. Marketing, hype, more is better, NOT.

Absolutely, get the best Metal parts you can, Callaham seems to be it right now.

Frets make a difference too. Large , wide, frets do not give the best Strat tone either. they make the guitar hard sounding.

Of course the paint job affects the tone too.

I had the Fender custom shop build a 1956 style for me years ago. The lightest one Piece Swamp ash body, clear straight grain maple neck. Nitro Lacquer finish. It took about five years for that guitar to start sounding really good.

[blueschicken]

I have an alder body american strat with a Seymour Hot Rail in the bridge position set up to use the middle tone pot as a single to Hum. tap, a lace silver in the middle and neck positions that I set up myself, and I'm playing through a Silver face deluxe reverb fender tube amp with a modified RAT and get pretty close to the tone you are talking about. The trick is taking your time and playing with the amp tone knobs and the pedal and a little bit of time adjusting your pickup heights and putting them all together. This is not an overnight process but with the right equipment and quality time you can get pretty close to what you want!

[Moses]

Well I really don't have that much to add to this conversation...but I'm going to give you all my 2 cents worth anyway

So I wrote a list of all the things I could think of that would have an effect on tone (in general. Obviously there are about a billion different factors involved in the tonal characteristics of a pickup, but I left that at just one item), and put them in order according to which one, in my very humble opinion, has the greatest effect on tone. I based this off of the theory that the sound produced originally is the "true" tone and everything that comes after that initial sound production is secondary tone-wise. Of course this is all very much up to debate, but hey that's what we're here for. So this is what I think.

1. Fingers and Technique
2. Strings
3. Nut and Bridge
4. Frets
5. Wood
6. Pups
7. EQ
8. Amplifier
9. Cable length, pot and cap values, etc.
10. Construction
11. Interference ( in single coils )
12. Finish

A few more words of explanation:
By construction I basically mean how the body is set up, and how the neck is attached. This is so low because to me it seems like it has greater influence on sustain than tone.
Finish is low because in my opinion a good finish on a well-made guitar is going to have a negligible effect on tone and a hardly noticeable effect on sustain. On cheaper guitars, finish may be too thick and have more of an effect, but I choose to ignore that :P

Ok well.....have at it. Tell me why I am wrong!