String Tension

[Chevy]

Hi guys,

String tension is something I've always puzzled over, and haven't yet figured out.

It seems to me (right or wrong???) that some guitars with the same scale have more string tension than others (all other things like pitch and string type remaining equal).

I used to own a mid-80's US Tele, and just could not seem to get comfortable on that guitar due to higher string tension, no matter what I tried. A Strat I had at the time had less tension (I realize a floating trem contributes to this, but it seemed more than just that). Another Strat I just got some work done on (new body and change to vintage style trem from a 2-point trem) came back with higher string tension than when it left. Huh?

I've gotten used to playing Boomers 10's on my guitars, and do notice a change to Fender strings increases tension. This makes sense, as the string material can be different. But as far as why one guitar with the same scale and strings would have a different string tension than another of the same kind.... huh?

Anyhow, I like the 25.5 scale Fender type guitars, and would like to do whatever I can to reduce string tension at standard pitch.

Thanks for any tips!

Best,
Chevy

[olddawg]

A lot of what is percieved as string tension is not tension at all but nuances in set up, nut height, differences in frets size, or combinations of these and other details. I would find a good reputable shop (not the one you are not happy with), explain your problems, have a fret dress and a pro setup. I would consider trying Ernie Ball strings. Also find out what guage fret wire is on your guitar(s). The most fluid bending will be with a properly dressed large fret. You could line up 10 guitars of the same type and the feel would be different for each one. If you put a strain gauge on each string it would be the same.

[Sweetfinger]

There's many factors that contribute fo the feel of a guitar. A part of it is the actual string tension, but IMO a lot of the stiff feel that players will blame on string tension comes from other things such as nut slot height, fret height, neck relief, and least recognized, neck profile. Very tiny differences in neck profile will cause your fretting fingers to be slightly 'out' of their comfy range where they are used to working. That's why players will prefer all kinds of different neck types. I've had customers who have played for years with big divots worn into the frets to the point where there is no fret left underneath the string. After I refret the guitar, some have a hard time adjusting to the new frets because they have become used to playing bad frets. We're talking differences of 20 to 50 thousanths of an inch. Doesn't seem like much, but it can be ALL the difference in the world.

All that being said, with regards to string tension, there ARE differences in tension between different brands and types within a brand. If you have a VERY good micrometer, you can measure the differences in different manufacturer's strings. Overall, a .010 is going to be close enough throughout brands..usually. Same with any plain string. Where the important difference can show up is in the wound strings. Wound strings are manufactured by winding a certain guage wire around a certain guage core. To get a wound .026 for instance, you could wind .016 wire around a .010 core, or you could wind .008 around an .018 core. The thicker core will have a stiffer feel. Some companies will supply the information about their core/wrap ratios, some won't, but you can disassemble a string and measure.

[David Schwab]

Anyhow, I like the 25.5 scale Fender type guitars, and would like to do whatever I can to reduce string tension at standard pitch.

Use 9's. Or try some other brand of string.

[voodoochild]

I don't know about you guys, but if I put the guitar down for a couple of weeks and pick it back up, it feels like I am playing cables. Play alot and they feel slinkier. Maybe your fingers are out of shape.

[David Schwab]

I don't know about you guys, but if I put the guitar down for a couple of weeks and pick it back up, it feels like I am playing cables. Play alot and they feel slinkier. Maybe your fingers are out of shape.

That's very true! Try not playing bass for a few weeks and see how those strings feel!

And even with being used to playing on bass strings, I still like 9's on my guitars. Every now and then I switch to 10's, but then I switch back again.

[Chevy]

Thanks for the feedback...

Yeah, ok.... so my fingers have gone wimpy on me... totally valid comment. Out of shape = cables for strings.
And as for 9's, I just haven't found they do it for me sonically. The thinner the tone, the less enjoyment for me. May have to tune down to Eb instead.
I will try Ernie Balls.... hopefully less tension. This may save the day.

But I was really trying to figure out why guitars vary in "perceived" tension from one to the next, and how to reduce it to a min if at all possible.

The neck shape is a good point.... I was kinda wondering what effect the leverage of maybe a thick neck had on tension. Didn't SRV's number 1 have a thick neck?

I love Dunlop 6100's, and don't like to dress 'em.... like 'em large. Hope that won't affect tension.

My local guitar tech/luthier here won't be of much help setting up a guitar to reduce string tension; I already asked.

Thanks for the awesome tips!
Chevy

[cminor9]

I play 11s. I bend the heck out of my strings. I have been known to do two-step bends with those 11s. I have pretty tough fingers. I play several guitars, a strat type guitar, a 335-like guitar, and an Ibanez S series with the shorter 24 3/4 scale.

Went to Guitar Center to try out a tele since I want a tele (and a les paul, and an SG, and...) I played a few teles and all of them were the same, it felt like I was playing cables. Now, I *know* they aren't putting 11s on those guitars. I am sure those guitars haven't been set up, but I didn't expect that. Not sure if it's the ridiculously round neck radius on those things, the maple necks, the small frets, the poor setup, or some combination of all those things. I'd still like a tele, but I really didn't like the feel of those particular teles. It was pretty much as you described. I am beginning to think it's just the way teles feel.

[David Schwab]

Yeah, ok.... so my fingers have gone wimpy on me... totally valid comment. Out of shape = cables for strings.
And as for 9's, I just haven't found they do it for me sonically. The thinner the tone, the less enjoyment for me. May have to tune down to Eb instead.
I will try Ernie Balls.... hopefully less tension. This may save the day.

I don't find them to be thin sounding at all. I use D'Addario XL's.

But I was really trying to figure out why guitars vary in "perceived" tension from one to the next, and how to reduce it to a min if at all possible.

There are some factors that have to do with the total string length, past the nut and bridge saddles. The string is still at the same tension, but can often feel looser, which is just because it's easier to bend, because of the extra string slipping past the nut and saddle.

I love Dunlop 6100's, and don't like to dress 'em.... like 'em large. Hope that won't affect tension.

It wont, but what I've found, and this was surprising to me, was that low wide frets gave better feeling action that high wide frets.

My local guitar tech/luthier here won't be of much help setting up a guitar to reduce string tension; I already asked.

Besides changing string brands or gauges, there's not much you can do.

[Chevy]

I play 11s. I bend the heck out of my strings. I have been known to do two-step bends with those 11s. I have pretty tough fingers.
Went to Guitar Center to try out a tele since I want a tele (and a les paul, and an SG, and...) I played a few teles and all of them were the same, it felt like I was playing cables. It was pretty much as you described. I am beginning to think it's just the way teles feel.

Dude!!!! Ok..... it's sort comforting that it's not just some weirdness that nobody else picks up on. Yeah, and, no matter which string type I tried, that cable-like feeling was still there.
11's and 2 step bends? Yow.... sounds like that old martial arts movie "5 fingers of death" where this guy had hands of steel.....
But seriously, you play those on a Strat tuned to standard pitch? What kind of strings, or does it matter?

[jrfrond]

There is no doubt that string feel can vary from brand-to-brand, and there can be minute tension difference even between identically-gauged sets from the same manufacturer, which is why setup and intonation needs to at least be checked at every string change.

There are, however, MANY setup factors that contribute to the looseness/stiffness of an instrument's feel. Forget about the stuff you play in GC or Sam Ash! Don't use these guitars as benchmarks. If I ever find ONE properly set-up axe in one of those places, I'll bend over and suck my own toes (not easy when you are my size! ). Dead-flat necks are where it's at for a buttery feel. When there is too much neck relief, even the best guitars can be stiff as a board, and it doesn't take a whole lot. Proper saddle height and arc, nut height, string trees, string angle breakover, trem vs. hardtail...these all interact to produce the final feel of the instrument.

[cminor9]

But seriously, you play those on a Strat tuned to standard pitch? What kind of strings, or does it matter?

11s on the strat? Sure, and I tune to 440 or even a cent sharp. I used to use Ernie Ball, but I recently switched to D'Addarios. Can't tell much difference, really, except the D'Addarios seems to sound fresh a little longer.

Most of my guitars have fixed bridges. I really hate trem bridges, but the strat has a kahler locking trem on it and I cannot block it like I do on all the other guitars I have with a trem (the strat's a bit of a frankenstein). Most heavy bending happens on other guitars, cause the trem just kills my bends. The strat's relatively round fretboard makes it my hardest guitar to play, too, so I do take a beating on that guitar. But that was true even with the 10s I used to play. Round fretboards suck.

If you start playing 11s, you just get used to em. IMO, it's well worth it for the way they sound. They don't go so sharp when you really hit them, and they sound more girthy.

[cminor9]

Forget about the stuff you play in GC or Sam Ash! Don't use these guitars as benchmarks.

Dead-flat necks are where it's at for a buttery feel. When there is too much neck relief, even the best guitars can be stiff as a board, and it doesn't take a whole lot. Proper saddle height and arc, nut height, string trees, string angle breakover, trem vs. hardtail...these all interact to produce the final feel of the instrument.

Agreed on GC. Like I said, I am sure they just put the guitar out on the floor as they come it.

On straight necks...I like a straight neck. I have an Ibanez SC420. I have that neck set to be almost perfectly straight. The intonation is spot-on, and action is as low as I can go. But with the straight neck, I get buzzes at certain points. I live with it, cause the neck on that guitar plays PERFECTLY for me, and I have never played a guitar with a faster, slinkier feel (and I have played some high end guitars.) But if I could get rid of the buzzes, I would. Any ideas on how to get rid of buzzes at certain points on the fretboard without raising the action? Do I need to do something to the frets? FWIW, I have had the guitar for about 12 years now, and play it quite a bit, but the frets still look good.

[jrfrond]

....Any ideas on how to get rid of buzzes at certain points on the fretboard without raising the action?....

Judicious fret dressing can help a lot here, but you might be a candidate for a compound radius fingerboard.

[misterdontmove]

Scale Length

Don't forget scale length. I keep 10's on my fenders and 11's on my Gibsons and Epi's. I find that the tension feels the same (or close) that way. 11's on Fender scale length feels heavy to me. Or maybe I'm nuts !!