Guitar neck clear finish question

[Chuck H]

FWIW, dewaxed shellac also makes an excellent sealer/primer/basecoat working with most any finish.

It's also a good odor sealer for smoke damage, flood damage, pet violated floors, etc. In which case it's usually indoors and going on in some quantity so make sure you have fresh cartridges on your respirator mask.

[Chuck H]

Ok... This thread has gone a little sideways anyhow and I'm sure gui_tarzan will post if there's any finishing questions. For which I hope Mick or myself will have useful advice. So...

My favorite circumstance with shellac was when my brother in law wanted his new bar, which was chair railed and skirted with knotty pine, to look "old". Which means bringing up any tannins and simulating an aged finish. I'd done some of this sort of thing before and here's how I managed it: Before the paneling was installed it was washed with an amonia solution and then neutralized with a white vinegar solution. Allowed to dry, lightly sanded and then sealed with amber shellac. This is a non dewaxed product from Zinsser but I wasn't worried because I was going to use a hot solvent sanding sealer on top which would emulsify and incorporate any waxes into the available polymers in the sealer (I'd done this before). The The amonia does a great job of darkening knots and pulling tannins to the surface. The amber shellac looks almost just like aged and yellowed finish. After the sanding sealer the boards were sanded and installed. Some care is needed to not sand through the color at this stage while still smoothing any knapp that has developed with hydrated treatments. Then two coats of modern polyurethane. It looks fantastic like a hundred year old pub and will last forever. Really proud of that one.

On a side note this same guy ordered an amp from me and wanted the same wood and look. I used a spalted piece of wood for the front of the head cabinet for flair and he liked it. These are amps that have seen some road use and the soft pine hasn't been durable. But other than the softer wood the finish has done really well. So there you go. People will tell you to avoid non dewaxed shellac for surfaces to be be finished with modern products but that's not always the case. You just need a little paint chemistry in your favor

[gui_tarzan]

Hey, my brain goes sideways during normal conversation so it's no biggie. lol

There is a lot of very useful information here aside from my original question so I'm good with it.

[Mick Bailey]

There's always regular dichloromethane stripper which may work, or the alternative is benzyl alcohol/benzyl formate strippers. Neither works too well on poly 2K finishes, but if it is acid-catalysed lacquer may soften the finish well enough to remove with cabinet scrapers and steel wool. I have both types of stripper to hand and was looking round for some test pieces from an old book shelf to give a better idea, but can't find where they are. It did cause me to clear up in my workshop, though.

[Chuck H]

...but if it is acid-catalysed lacquer may soften the finish well enough to remove with cabinet scrapers and steel wool.

Just a note from personal experience. I avoid using steel wool on maple (or any blonde wood) because on more than one occasion it left gray residue in the pores of the wood surface. Not saying this will always be the case but why not avoid the dissapointment.

[tedmich]

Some poly finishes need heat /scraping, its sad but true. And this is from a guy with access to ANY chemicals needed I recently scraped a bass top clean after it laughed at my DCM/MeOH/ammonia combo

[The Dude]

^^^^^^ That! My mother and step dad ran a full refinishing shop for years, and thought they'd seen everything. This wasn't a hobbyist shop- the real deal. I took a strat body to them once because I thought it would be easy for them. After all they have strip tanks, every stripping chemical know to mankind, all the right tools, etc. They ended up scraping and sanding. Nothing they had would budge the poly finish. I was politely told not to bring them another.

[Chuck H]

I've had that kind of problem with polyester finishes on guitars. Just terrible stuff to remove. But also durable as hell. Which I expect is why it was used in the first place.

[The Dude]

Yep, Agree. It is what it is because it's assumed you don't WANT it to come off!

[Chuck H]

It's easy to recognize polyester finished when working them (sanding, etc.) because they smell like guitar picks. So I assume a lot of guitar picks use a polyester resin but I can only guess this from an olfactory position

[Mick Bailey]

Just a note from personal experience. I avoid using steel wool on maple (or any blonde wood) because on more than one occasion it left gray residue in the pores of the wood surface. Not saying this will always be the case but why not avoid the dissapointment.

I've had this happen a couple of times when using fine steel wool directly on light timber and spoiled an otherwise good job. I wonder if there's a deposit on the surface of the wool - oxide, oil or something else? Also, nowadays the fine stuff breaks up a lot quicker than it used to do. For paint and varnish removal I use fairly coarse wool just to clear away the treated surface, but not to scrub the timber itself. I also have a selection of cabinet scrapers (the best ones I've cut from disposable hand saw blades). They need to have a proper turned over edge and can be a real dream to use. When getting down the the timber itself I use either MEK or methylated spirit with a nylon pan scourer to mobilise the remaining softened finish and pull it out of the grain. Most paint stripper and MEK will melt position markers.......

[Chuck H]

Most paint stripper and MEK will melt position markers.......

Good to know! I've never stripped a finished fingerboard.

And both the residue problems I've had with steel wool was using the fine stuff (0000). One was a final polish for the frets on my own franken strat before tung oil. Now, many years later with the fingerboard showing a lot of darkening in the positions I play most it doesn't matter anymore. But at the time I was pretty dissaponted.

[Chuck H]

Side note to satin finish or tung oil to reduce the stickiness and improve the feel of a neck...

As with any guitar project your mind imagines a furniture grade finish. BUT DON'T! Absolutely get down to fine grades of sandpaper for the headstock and fingerboard. But for the back of the neck don't go any finer than about 150 (or even 120). There won't be much visible sanding marks because the lower sheen on the finish hides a lot of that. The advantage in performance is that there is less "contact patch" on your palm when it's on the neck. Just something I noticed on some custom shop super strat type guitars that guys were doing in California in the 90's. I remember first thinking "This neck isn't finished very smooth." and then thinking "This neck feels smooth as Teflon."

Which begs considering another idea I've had... There are Teflon (PTFE) spray paints that, while only having Teflon solids in a polymerized matrix are still smoother and slicker than other paints. The stuff is used primarily on outdoor equipment like shovels and tractor heads. I've though about trying it on the back of a guitar neck but just never prioritized it. Of course I wouldn't do it on the neck in this thread since it has some flame/quilt grain and that would be a shame.

[gui_tarzan]

It's been so long since I made these bodies I forgot how much work it is to get them smooth enough for a good paint job. I built a total of five of these bodies back in the day, I forgot about the bass and another painted body. So the two Mahogany bodies (one is shown in the 1st post) will get a transparent finish, not sure what type yet. The Maple, Ash and Basswood bodies are already painted so they are getting sanded down and re-sealed, then painted again.

I will study the recommendations for the neck, that's for sure. The more I think about it the more I believe it's a quality neck. The quilting tells me someone chose that wood carefully because it really is quite beautiful in the right light. I just wish I could identify the maker.

[Chuck H]

The more I think about it the more I believe it's a quality neck. The quilting tells me someone chose that wood carefully because it really is quite beautiful in the right light. I just wish I could identify the maker.

Consider also that it's still straight. I think THAT'S the tell. There were a few cheaper guitars that were made with quilt pattern maple sometimes just because it's a draw for purchase. But the neck wouldn't still be straight if the wood hadn't been properly selected, aged and handled. Nothing to do about the wood dough patches or Floyd route nut. But you could always use it on another Floyd equipped guitar. Modern trends be damned I still love a Floyd.