Guitars that get dark when turned down.

[Chuck H]

Yes, but thats not what i was trying to accomplish. Treble loss is no longer an issue, the problem thats always existed before and after i dealt with treble loss is that the guitar doesn't clean up much, and it DID help that a lot. But after a time i came to realize i didn't like the tone as much with the volume all the way up. So i removed that mod. Now i'm on the hunt for pickups but i'm not sure whether i will because i know this will be a tough one and i will likely lose a lot of $ trying set after set. Been there done that, not sure i wanna do it again. But im researching them never the less.

Ah. I see. So what you want is a taper that has the same response at volume 5 as a typical pot would at volume 2? I would need to know what the taper of the pot you have now is to make any suggestions. And a description of "audio taper" or "log" won't do. I would need to know the actual taper percentage.

[daz]

Ah. I see. So what you want is a taper that has the same response at volume 5 as a typical pot would at volume 2? I would need to know what the taper of the pot you have now is to make any suggestions. And a description of "audio taper" or "log" won't do. I would need to know the actual taper percentage.

Yes, and i looked at all the pots i have a measured them but they're all about the same. But the thing i don't understand is that when i tried this resistor thing it cleaned up better than it does without the resistor no matter how far down i turned it. W/o the R i would have to turn it down to under 2 to get the same clean-ness yet that that point it sounded weak and unusable. With the R it cleaned up good at 4 and sounded full and usable. I don't know whats at play there because it would see in either case it's just a matter of WHERE things happen on the dial, but that didn't seem to be the case. I'd still like a different taper tho because along with the lack of cleanup the other issue is it happens so low on the dial that in a band situation it's hard to get the various degrees of dirt or clean i want in the middle of a song because i have to turn it so far. I just feel the right pickup will fix both those things but no idea which will do that. I think the tonerider alnico II seems lik it might because it's scatter wound which i don't think a lot of HB's are and that could potentially reduce capacitence enough to make the difference. So i'm considering one of those then a second if the first one works.

[rockman627]

Yes I would like it to be a touch brighter but if 1 megs are difficult to treble bleed, the 500k s are alright. Thanks.

[daz]

Yes I would like it to be a touch brighter but if 1 megs are difficult to treble bleed, the 500k s are alright. Thanks.

Not sure if thats the case, (1M difficult to TB) but i think you will likely find a TB, probably a 250pf will make everything just right. If it;s too much try a 100k trimmer in series with the cap and adjust to taste. I don't think 1M pots are necassary, plus they will likely make turning down for cleaner tones require a lot of turning. It's one thing to have a taper that is like a on/off switch, but the polar opposite isn't good either IMO.

Chuck.....i tried A5 mags once already but it doin't sound good. But it just hit me that removing the covers did next to nothing and i did that a few days ago to good results. Point is, all mods are interdependent and it hit me that maybe NOW i would like A5 so i tried it again and it sounds much better. Not so much the cleanup thing, tho that DID improved slightly. But overall tone is what i expected from A5 being my fav magnets. When i tried them at first the guitar was so congested with low mid mud that i think a scooped mag like A5 took away some higher mids that were helping to keep the low mids from being even worse. Now that the low mid issue is almost nill, the A5s sound great. Now i know what pickups to get that i think will help further with cleanup AND overl tone which is now good at the bridge but the neck is just not a good pickup. Think 'm gonna try a set of tonerider A5 birminghams or SD 59s. I think the brminghams will be about the same as the 59s but 1/2 the cost.

[Helmholtz]

The tone pots can have higher resistance than the volume pots to make the sound with volume and tone on 10 brighter

[Chuck H]

The tone pots can have higher resistance than the volume pots to make the sound with volume and tone on 10 brighter

And... Even with an audio taper a 1M tone pot will feel like it's doing most of it's work between 0 and 3. Small price to pay if you want the guitar brighter when full up.

[daz]

I rarely eave tones hookd up, and certainly not on this guitar. I'm using the tone posts as splitters. BTW, I just ordered these in zebra.... https://tonerider.com/product/birmingham/

[Chuck H]

Hey daz, I'm working on a dual gang volume pot arrangement for you that could get you back to 500k for the load at full up but still give you a steeper audio taper for more control at low settings. And BTW, by your description of your problem and pot settings I think you and I use about the same amount of gain and clipping for our full up tone. I think most players that use their volume controls use less gain than that but I like it and I still want control. FWIW I hav an Alpha 15% taper in my guitar right now with a Kinman type treble bleed (so no change to the pot taper) and I have to turn down to 1.5ish for clean tones with single coil pickups. Then I switch to the humbucker and crank it and it's back to madness

Please explain your treble bleed system so I can get a close-ish response from the circuit I'm working on.

[daz]

Well, thanks Chuck but i think i'll be fine with it as is, especially once i get the new pickups which from my research should work a bit better. But my bleed is just a 270pf cap. I don't like resistors because they just allow even more bleed and of the entire bandwidth which basically makes you have to roll it down even further. And i have no issues with being void of lows because of the way i set my amp and other things. Plus on this guitar i dont need more lows when i turn down, if anything way less on the neck pickup and it's about right on the bridge. I think theres likely a taper that would do me just fine but the thing is i think it's more about the pickup's capacitance which is why i thought about scatterwound pickups. The ones i just ordered i don't believe are but i've read good things about how they clean up AND that the split sound is very good. Thing is, if the pickup cleans up well i may no have the issue any longer.

[Chuck H]

FWIW Mesa sells a 500k 5% audio taper pot (5A).

https://store.mesaboogie.com/product...dio-taper.html

It's a 16MM pot with a plastic shaft but these aren't actually problems if you know how things really work.

What might be a problem is that the taper might be a bit clumsy. 16mm pots generally have a simple two gradient taper. One resistance gradient going from zero to just past six in series with another resistance gradient from there to 10. Whereas some guitar specific pots (full size pots made by Bourns and CTS) are made with a three gradient taper that is smoother at the mid point transition. But I've never had a problem with two gradient pots. They've been made that way and used on all the Fender and Gibson guitars forever. That said I've never actually tried a three gradient pot. They're probably really nice. But alas, don't come in a 5% taper.

Ibanez has a 5A 500k pot commissioned for their JS series guitars but I couldn't find an after market product.

[daz]

Come to think of it, i bet you could come u with a custom taper by scraping the edge of the carbon trace. I did that to change a 500k pot that read under 500k to 520k. You could turn the 500k pot down to the lowest number on the dial that works for the cleanest tone, then read the pot at that point and take a 250k pot and scrape the area from say 5 on the dial on down till it reads the resistance you wanted at 5. Then read the entire trace and scrap from 5 all the way up to 10 till the entire trace reads 500k or whatever amount you want. I think i may try this. Gonna wait on the new pickups first tho as i may be happy as is with those.

[Chuck H]

Come to think of it, i bet you could come u with a custom taper by scraping the edge of the carbon trace. I did that to change a 500k pot that read under 500k to 520k. You could turn the 500k pot down to the lowest number on the dial that works for the cleanest tone, then read the pot at that point and take a 250k pot and scrape the area from say 5 on the dial on down till it reads the resistance you wanted at 5. Then read the entire trace and scrap from 5 all the way up to 10 till the entire trace reads 500k or whatever amount you want. I think i may try this. Gonna wait on the new pickups first tho as i may be happy as is with those.

In fact that's how they fine tune printed potentiometer elements. But in PCB manufacture they use lasers rather than Xacto knives. There might be some irregularity in the taper but probably still emminently useful. And, again...

Mesa DOES already make a 5% taper 500k pot. And if you could find the PN for the Ibanez JS guitar volume pot you could probably order one of those too.

[daz]

Mesa DOES already make a 5% taper 500k pot. And if you could find the PN for the Ibanez JS guitar volume pot you could probably order one of those too.

Maybe the ibanez but that mesa s a cheap small pot and i'd have to find a shaft/wiper with split shaft that fits and the threads might not be long enough. I wouldn't bother with that one.

[Chuck H]

Maybe the ibanez but that mesa s a cheap small pot and i'd have to find a shaft/wiper with split shaft that fits and the threads might not be long enough. I wouldn't bother with that one.

OOOooooo! (need "pinky in the air" emoji )

Nothing wrong with that pot. Except perhaps that it doesn't have a split shaft and maybe the thread depth. In fact set screw knobs are made for most popular guitar types, but they do sometimes crank with a wobble and it's annoying. But as far as cheap and small, really not an issue. I've done a lot with pots of all kinds and I promise you that WRT the pots typically used in guitars and amps there's no difference in build quality or reliability between expensive pots and average pots. Yes, the cheapest import pots can be lousy. But the regular stuff and the expensive stuff are no different with the exception of some special moniker and marketing hype. The only real limitations have to do with physical properties. Like your preference for a split shaft and the need for enough bushing length in some applications.

Really really.

EDIT: In fact I've used several of those Mesa pots in custom circuits because they have many value and taper combinations you won't find off the shelf anywhere else. I've found them to be better than average in quality.

[Greg Robinson]

If the bushing length and shaft type are a problem, you could probably do wafer transplant surgery with a Bourns pot. I do this sort of thing regularly for otherwise unobtanium pots.