My bias against EMGs

[kevinT]

I have used EMGs since the early 80s. I found that they were ok but I never really liked them. I have had the 81 in one of my guitars since that time.

I purchased a guitar recently with stock EMGs (the 81 and 85 combo). Been messing with them for a whle. After attempting to dial in tone that i liked I just couldn't arrive at any sound that was acceptable to me.

There is something, that I can't pinpoint, that EMGs are missing....they're not organic or have soul or something. They sound so sterile. Anybody else used EMGs and feel the same way.

[defaced]

Absolutely, they are sterile, which makes them great for high gain metal. I run an 85 in the bridge and an 81 in the neck, at 18v. That gives good low end for palm mutes and very good headroom.

What style of music are you playing and what amp are you using?

[bbsailor]

I have used EMGs since the early 80s. I found that they were ok but I never really liked them. I have had the 81 in one of my guitars since that time.

I purchased a guitar recently with stock EMGs (the 81 and 85 combo). Been messing with them for a whle. After attempting to dial in tone that i liked I just couldn't arrive at any sound that was acceptable to me.

There is something, that I can't pinpoint, that EMGs are missing....they're not organic or have soul or something. They sound so sterile. Anybody else used EMGs and feel the same way.

Kevin T

The ear is most sensitive to the initial attack of a note. That said and understood, taking this to it's logical conclusion would seem to indicate that there is something unique about passive pickups where the pickup is directly loaded down by the volume pot, tone pot and cap, the cable capacitance, and the amp input impedance. This loading on passive pickups causes less initial attack. Active pickups like the EMGs isolate the pickup from all of this loading and that has the major effect on causing a sharper attack of the notes.

The words in question that need a better definition are: organic, soul and sterile.

I suspect that you are using these words to attempt to identify your perception of the attack sound unique to active pickups as well as the higher bandwidth due to lack of traditional loading seen by passive pickups.

Some guitars sounds, that are preceived when playing alone, are different than when playing with other musicians. When trying to fit the guitar notes into the "groove" created by the drummer and bass player, sometimes having a better attack seems to fit better. But then again, it all depends on what quality of guitar sounds we perceive as "good" which depends on what we baseline our judgment on. Engineering can't determine what sounds good, it can only analyze what is agreed upon as sounding good. My answer was my feeble attempt to do this.

It would be interseting to hear what other forum members have to say about this?

Joseph Rogowski

[MattT]

IMO, because they were one of the first active guitar p'up companies they tend to get singled out. I mean...I can see what you're saying but I could also say that about just about every pickup I've ever played except a few that I really liked. So yea EMG isn't for me...well neither are Gibsons, Fenders, Fralins, Duncans, Tom Andersons...and the list goes on and on.

Also, imo the term 'sterile' is a term that I translate as "I dunno what or why I don't like the tone...I just don't". And that happens to me too...sometimes I dunno why I prefer one tone over another. People go to a lot of trouble to have true bypass or perfect buffers or high-$ cables so they can retain the 'purity' of their tone...but then say something sounds sterile? And that's bad? Pure, uncontaminated tone is now bad? I don't think of them as 'sterile'...more like just the opposite...imo they are like a recording of a recording...and something got lost in the re-recording.

I used to use them and liked them but I don't use them anymore (again...I could say that about a lot of stuff). But I'm so glad that companies are trying new things (not so 'new' anymore but way back when EMG got started they were new) because we guitar players are soooooooo stuck in the past and sooooooooo narrow minded when it comes to gear (I'm right here with ya too!). Somebody's gotta have the stones to venture out of the 1950s/60s box.

[kevinT]

Absolutely, they are sterile, which makes them great for high gain metal. I run an 85 in the bridge and an 81 in the neck, at 18v. That gives good low end for palm mutes and very good headroom.

What style of music are you playing and what amp are you using?

I play metal, rock, blues. I admit I haven't had them at very loud volumes since back in the day when I was gigging...but at lower so called "bedroom volumes" they are lacking something for me. I mainly use a 100w Laney head with 4 x 12 celetians...it's a cab that I made.

The passive pickups that I use and make, under the same conditions, have so much more life. More touch sensitive, rich in harmonic overtones, etc...

[Joe Gwinn]

The passive pickups that I use and make, under the same conditions, have so much more life. More touch sensitive, rich in harmonic overtones, etc...

One possible difference is the level of microphonics in the pickup. I think EMGs are basically immune. People intentionally under-pot pickups so as the allow some microphonics while preventing squealing.

One way to test this theory is to attach a contact mic to the guitar body and use a mixing console to vary the blend of pickup to contact mic signal in the total.

[anderekel]

As far as I've seen and heard, haven't used emg's much, just messin' around in the local guitar shop, the big difference is that emg's have a flatter response. Basically they don't really accentuate mids or lows or highs, that's what the eq is for. Like someone else said, great for high gain metal, but even David Gilmour uses active pickups, don't remember if it's emg or not.

[Possum]

....

I agree with Kevin, they are sterile and lifeless for what you're playing at levels you're playing. An active pickup has pretty low wind coils so they are more hi-fi sounding and don't have the "sag" a coil with more wire does. I did all of EMG's ads and trade show booth graphics, catalogs etc. back in the 80's and know those guys real well. They outfitted my Ibanez strat with their strat pickups and two tone control circuits. At first I really liked the tone, especially when the tone control circuits were in play. But one day at band practice I picked up my friend's Fender strat and played it and was shocked at how good those passive pickups "felt" and sounded. I tore the EMG stuff out next day and never went back. EMG buckers are for heavy metal guys who play really loud with high gain, bass players like their products, and I think David Gilmour likes their strat stuff, their products have a pretty limited appeal in general, they definitely aren't all-purpose pickups. You either like them or you don't....

[mkat]

Ibass players like their products

Not all bass players. I replaced the stock pickups in my Fender '67 pbass with a set of EMGs back in around '88 I think. They were ok and quiet, so good for live especially for bass 'cause bass and too much noise in a live situation make a bad combination. IMO, a set of humbuckers with a good preamp sound a hell of a lot better than a set of EMGs with the same config.

[salvarsan]

Several things are going on in the EMG vs. passive comparison.

Technically, you have an analytical-sounding pickup that has no microphonics, and the fact that most solid body guitars don't sound very good without that microphonic sweetening. At the human end of it is a learned preference for the antique sold body guitar+pickup+amp sounds.

If you're using high gain distortion or are simply godawful loud, you probably don't care about the guitar's inherent qualities anyway, and the EMG is a good choice.

EMG is not the only active pickup maker and, to hear it told, EMG's sound represents an extreme in the active pickup continuum.

-drh

[David Schwab]

I agree with Kevin, they are sterile and lifeless for what you're playing at levels you're playing. An active pickup has pretty low wind coils so they are more hi-fi sounding and don't have the "sag" a coil with more wire does.

Actually EMG's are wound just like passive pickups. They seem to wind as much wire that will fit on the bobbin. The difference is that the two coils are not wired up in series, so you are really listening to each coil as if it were two single coils.

The EMG-58 is a real nice sounding humbucker, but they only make it as a custom shop order now and replaced it with the 85. They said the 58 was too noisy.

I think the big problem with EMG's is not being wired in series, so they lack the big hump that makes humbuckers sound warm.

Not all bass players. I replaced the stock pickups in my Fender '67 pbass with a set of EMGs back in around '88 I think. They were ok and quiet, so good for live especially for bass 'cause bass and too much noise in a live situation make a bad combination. IMO, a set of humbuckers with a good preamp sound a hell of a lot better than a set of EMGs with the same config.

I also used EMG's since the 80's since I was working at American Showster, and that's what the Tailfins mostly used.

I had them in my basses for years, and then got tired of the tone. The main thing I hear is that the top end is too brittle, and they have a tone built in that you can't easily change. I would do drastic EQ only to have it sound pretty much the same. My favorite EMG's where the P and J models, and even then the P was wired in parallel, so it lacked the thickness I'd want from a P, and the J lacked low end and output. I was always puzzled that they couldn't make them the same output, since they have built in preamps!

My dislike of EMG's is what lead me to making my own pickups.

Technically, you have an analytical-sounding pickup that has no microphonics...

I'm not convinced that they have no microphonics. The coils them selves are wax potted, and then the whole thing is encapsulated in epoxy. With encapsulated pickups, they still pick up vibrations in the body.... all you have to do is tap them and hear it. Except now they are vibrating with the body, and not separately, which is what causes the bad kind of feedback. If you have the amp cranked up high enough you can really hear any noise you make on the body.

But I think the bottom line is it's the design, more than them being active or encapsulated, because I've made active encapsulated pickups have sure have a more organic tone than EMG's.

[Possum]

....

Yeah, strat pickups are usually totally potted to the core, vintage Fender strats sure were, you wouldn't say they lack character like EMG's do. I've not taken apart an EMG bucker but their strat pickups have really small coils, a double stack, I don't think there's the same amount of winds as a real strat pickup in there.....

[David Schwab]

I've not taken apart an EMG bucker but their strat pickups have really small coils, a double stack, I don't think there's the same amount of winds as a real strat pickup in there.....

The coils aren't that small. If you add both of them up I think its about the same size. Of course it uses a single alnico magnet for a blade, and stacks always have a different tone.

I think their Strat pickups aren't too bad. But I have a customer who's getting a bunch of David Gilmore EMG prewired pickguards, and offered me a few and I thought "what am I going to do with those?" Sell them I guess, because I sure don't want them!

You can see there's a bunch of wire on the bobbin.

[Dude]

They sound like batteries. I'm not fond of putting a battery in a guitar. Batteries go in toys and I take my tone too seriously to turn my guitar into a toy. But seriously, everytime you put a battery in a guitar, you loose that natural sound, that soul. Some toy pickups aren't as bad as others, EMG is just so extream.

You know what else uses batteries?? Dildoes.

[David Schwab]

You know what else uses batteries??

And let's see Hendrix used a lot of batteries... and SRV too! You don't use any pedals? David Gilmore uses EMG's, and he gets a great tone. A million other great musicians use battery powered effects and preamps and get a great tone.

And what are batteries? Power sources. Does your amp run on cheese? So your amp "sounds" like batteries.

Batteries don't have a tone. That's the dumbest thing I ever heard. The only thing a buffer will do is brighten up the tone of the pickup. Some people equate the high end rolled off with warmth, but it's lack of high end.

Duncan has some nice sounding active pickups... it's all in the design. EMG had a sound in mind and they got it. I'm not crazy about it, but a lot of good musicians like it.