Keeper Bars - Maybe for sale?

[belwar]

Hey All,

So I configured the CNC today to mill keeper bars for me. I designed them with a few goals in mind..

1) Be similar to PAF keeper bars in appearance
2) natural edges, not stamped like the stew mac/mojo/GJ keepers
3) Drilled & Reamed holes instead of Stamped holes.
4) Perfectly fit the Stewmac/Allparts bobbin.

Well the prototype turned out pretty darn good. I made them from 3/16" square stock, and milled one edge down to 1/8" similar to how PAF keepers were constructed. Then I center drilled the holes, followed by a drilling with a 0.12 Drill bit, and finished up with 0.125 reamer. Then I cut them to length with a 1/8" endmill.

For me its the best keeper i've seen yet, and close to a PAF one as is possible without PAF accurate bobbins. I still have a little bit of work to do with the hole placement. Many of the current ones have oversized holes so that the bar can move to keep the magnet, slugs, and keeper connected. With my prototypes the holes are so perfect the keeper cant move which leaves a gap between either the slugs and magnet or Keeper and Magnet. I think I can get around this by building a flaw into the design. I can either make the holes bigger, or offset them towards one edge of the keeper. My preference is a tight fit and offset holes.

Since I am set-up, and Im going to make several hundred, it got me to thinking. Is there a market for these? Would anyone be interested in buying some if I make them? What kind of price is it worth to people? I have to make it worth my while to make them and they are not as cheap as stamped ones because they ARE milled which is ALOT more work and time. I'll make the ones for sale out of 1018 steel if anyone wants to know - My own are a different alloy.

b.

[Chadheckler1]

I can either make the holes bigger, or offset them towards one edge of the keeper. My preference is a tight fit and offset holes.
b.

...I have noticed that the Mojo/GJ keepers are offset. I guess it makes sense why, now that you say that there is play/slop between the magnet/Slugs/Keeper when the holes are centered in the keeper.

I was just about to make my own (Mainly because of what you are thrying to do...keep it tight...and make them with love, instead of a stamping press!) and I will now pay attention to this seemingly small detail when attempting my first...thanks for the heads up!

If I don't get around to making my own, I might be interested in trying some...how much?

[belwar]

To the person who sent me a PM ..

Your Inbox is full, and I cannot respond to you. To answer your question though:

Yes, I supposed I could make custom thicknesses. I would assume you want want 0.133 to match a PAF style magnet. Definetly doable. However you would be adding more load to the magnet because there is going to be more metal.. 0.008" more. The original PAF ones were 0.125 even though the magnet was 0.133

b.

[belwar]

...I have noticed that the Mojo/GJ keepers are offset. I guess it makes sense why, now that you say that there is play/slop between the magnet/Slugs/Keeper when the holes are centered in the keeper.

I was just about to make my own (Mainly because of what you are thrying to do...keep it tight...and make them with love, instead of a stamping press!) and I will now pay attention to this seemingly small detail when attempting my first...thanks for the heads up!

If I don't get around to making my own, I might be interested in trying some...how much?

I dont really know what to charge .. maybe something like $2.50-$3.00 each? The stewmac ones are $1.10 for japanese stamped ones and these take a fair bit of work. I havent fully decided if I want to sell them, but if the sales are there and people wanted them I suppose I would do it.

I tried to take a picture with my crappy camera but it was a total fail. This was the best I can do until tommorow...

[JGundry]

One detail to build into the design is the pole screws to be used. Mojotone vintage style screws are at the high end of the thread size tolerance to the point that they thread themselves into the All Parts baseplate which I personally like.

The other detail is if you take a close look at a virgin PAF you will find that ther is very often a gap between the slug and the magnet. I don't think this was by design but a result of the assembly sequence.

[David Schwab]

To the person who sent me a PM ..

Your Inbox is full, and I cannot respond to you. To answer your question though:

Yes, I supposed I could make custom thicknesses. I would assume you want want 0.133 to match a PAF style magnet. Definetly doable. However you would be adding more load to the magnet because there is going to be more metal.. 0.008" more. The original PAF ones were 0.125 even though the magnet was 0.133

b.

I was not the one asking the question (obviously) but I think if you can match the pole surface area of the magnet you will have a stronger screw coil, since the magnet's pole face is making full contact with the studs but not the keeper.

Unless you are slavishly trying to match a PAF, flaws and all, I think it would be a better way to do things. It seems they went with a standard bar thickness for the keepers. For much the same reason as they are stamped out. It was a cheaper way to do it.

[David Schwab]

The other detail is if you take a close look at a virgin PAF you will find that ther is very often a gap between the slug and the magnet. I don't think this was by design but a result of the assembly sequence.

Just be careful not to infringe on DiMarzio's "airbucker" patent.

As an aside I have an Air Norton here that was in a customer's Tele. I was surprised how good this pickup sounds at the neck. It might be the best neck pickup I ever heard. He replaced it with a P-Rail which I'm really disappointed with. To me either coil by itself sounds almost exactly alike, and together (series) it's on the dark side. In parallel all three settings sound like. I had to do some tricks with capacitors to make the two settings sound different. I liked the Air Norton better.

[JGundry]

To the person who sent me a PM ..

Your Inbox is full, and I cannot respond to you. To answer your question though:

Yes, I supposed I could make custom thicknesses. I would assume you want want 0.133 to match a PAF style magnet. Definetly doable. However you would be adding more load to the magnet because there is going to be more metal.. 0.008" more. The original PAF ones were 0.125 even though the magnet was 0.133

b.

The PAF magnets I have measured range from .117" to .140". That's the max. measurement figures from individual magnets.

[madialex]

Just be careful not to infringe on DiMarzio's "airbucker" patent.

As an aside I have an Air Norton here that was in a customer's Tele. I was surprised how good this pickup sounds at the neck. It might be the best neck pickup I ever heard. He replaced it with a P-Rail which I'm really disappointed with. To me either coil by itself sounds almost exactly alike, and together (series) it's on the dark side. In parallel all three settings sound like. I had to do some tricks with capacitors to make the two settings sound different. I liked the Air Norton better.

Hey David, you have a PM.....

[Possum]

....

I don't think the hole "offset" is real, if you look at those keepers flip it over and the other side the holes are centered. Its because of sloppy punching, the holes don't go perfectly straight through, I see the same thing on vintage keepers and the ones I make for myself often end up this way too...