Plain enamel wire on ebay

[JGundry]

I don't doubt what you are saying, but I would like to hear a test with bobbins of each wire swapped out of a humbucker, keeping all the other parts the same.

A) would you hear the difference if someone didn't tell you?

B) is the difference enough to matter in a real world situation?

You could ask the same question about something like bolt on necks.

The way I would describe it is PE is a drier tone and poly has a sort of juicy tonal quality to it in comparison.

[Possum]

...

Poly wire has less treble response, which is desirable in some cases for sure. Could you hear it in a blind test, maybe, maybe not. On a sophisticated frequency analyzer you could see it. A bottom line test would be wind identical pickups for NECK position and use a repeatable machine wind. You will hear a difference.

[David Schwab]

You could ask the same question about something like bolt on necks.

I can answer that one... not enough of a difference to matter. I have 2 set neck basses and a bolt on, which are otherwise fairly identical, except top woods. The necks are made exactly the same. The maple bolt on sounds pretty much like the maple top set neck, and the zebrawood top set neck is darker sounding.

My set neck Tele sounds like a Tele, even though it's built like a Les Paul. But that's more because of the scale length and bridge.

The way I would describe it is PE is a drier tone and poly has a sort of juicy tonal quality to it in comparison.

So would juicier mean more highs? Dave's saying the opposite.

I've done some experiments with pickups, and was quite surprised when I wound up two pickups to the same specs, except one had 43 AWG, and the other was 44, and that one had 1/16" blades, and the other had 1/8. Did they sound different? Yes, but not by a whole lot. In a recorded side by side comparison on the same bass, it was hard to tell. It wasn't enough of a difference to consider it a new model.

So I'd imagine PE vs. poly is similar. I hear more of a difference with insulation thicknesses, and that depends on the design of the pickup. Thicker insulation (and/or wire) is juicy sounding.

[Possum]

...

The difference is in the insulation substance, the dielectric constant is where its at. Have you ever wound a PAF neck pickup with single formvar? Way different than PE, too dark to use. Unfortunately there are no specs on insulation types and every company uses a proprietary mix anyway. Believe me if poly wire was no different than PE for PAFs I'd be using it all the time, its way cheaper. I recently cloned another vintage type of pickup very similar to PAFs which uses poly wire and immediately I could hear the difference from the wire. Maybe your ears to tuned too much to bass guitars? I'm listening to every day to prototype buckers with PE, listening to very small details and have been for a long time, making a set with poly wire really stuck out as being very different, I like it actually but in a PAF clone it does the wrong things and would make a terrible neck pickup. We can argue this for pages and page but those of us who use PE all the time know its value and its faults. When I started I used to think PE was just another mythical attributed wire, but over time I got to know it really well and its various diameters and from different companies, NOS etc. Definitely would not use it in a tele neck pickup for a traditional vintage tone. I also make alot of historic tele reproductions and poly doesn't cut it for those, again would be nice if it did because I'd save a ton of money on magnet wire...

[the great waldo]

I heard from BAE wire on Ebay, that stuff is good wire but I think its being dumped, its way over spec at .0030" which is about the same diameter as most heavy formvar, I have alot of NOS PE that size and its not useful for much....

I just checked mine comes out at 0.00255

Cheers
Andrew

[Possum]

...

The Mojo wire I got is probably the same, and yes its being dumped, most hobby pickup makers think all 42 and 43 is all the same size but once you buy a micrometer you find out. There's not much use for .0030" plain enamel for me. I think that stuff was made for PRS or one of the other pickup companies and they kept the good stuff and unloaded the offspec stuff.....

[voodoochild]

FACT: I don't think there is any choice for plain enamel any more. I contacted Mojo and they said American Wire is the only manufacturer for plain enamel and they make it for BAE, Elektrisola, everyone at one spec and one spec only. No matter who you buy it from it will all be the same unless they have old stock or something. Also once its gone its gone forever so I wouldn't put all my eggs in that PE basket and find alternatives.

[Possum]

....

Well that is only partially correct. REA Magnet Wire makes it for MWS, not AWC. The AWC wire is black and the only stuff I've seen made by them is being dumped from big buys by third parties unamed. You can't get it any useable diameters except for specialty pickups. I did manage to get a roll that was useable but that was 2 years ago from BAE, but they haven't had it since unfortunately...

[voodoochild]

It will be interesting to see what happens. Maybe we should just hoard the PE and in 10 years start making "authentic" PAF replicas with that stuff. Then we might have an edge in the market.

[JGundry]

FACT: I don't think there is any choice for plain enamel any more. I contacted Mojo and they said American Wire is the only manufacturer for plain enamel and they make it for BAE, Elektrisola, everyone at one spec and one spec only. No matter who you buy it from it will all be the same unless they have old stock or something. Also once its gone its gone forever so I wouldn't put all my eggs in that PE basket and find alternatives.

AWC makes wire and so does REA and so does Elektrisola. They are all different. Buy a spool of each and it is obvious. These three seem to to stop and start up production at will. What they really do is wait for a big enough order to justify starting up then the run a bunch of extra and wait for the next mega order before they start up again. REA seems to be pretty consistent na churning out PE wire but unfortunately it would be my last choice of PE wire to buy. Pickup makers are the only people that want 42AWG PE anymore. But as long as Seymour want 42 AWG PE my guess is someone will be making it. I called Essex a couple of years ago and talked to a production engineer. He said they could do a 200 lb batch of 42AWG PE at the drop of a hat they just needed to get the go ahead from sales.

[voodoochild]

I asked Mojo where they got their wire and they told me Elektrisola. Elektrisola doesn't make PE anymore. AWC makes it for Elektrisola now. Call and ask. I am only quoting from the horses mouth and I trust they know considering they deal with these companies on a regular basis.

[JGundry]

I asked Mojo where they got their wire and they told me Elektrisola. Elektrisola doesn't make PE anymore. AWC makes it for Elektrisola now. Call and ask. I am only quoting from the horses mouth and I trust they know considering they deal with these companies on a regular basis.

Did you get all of this information from Mojotone or did you call Elektrisola and AWC also? Just want to make sure who to call. Did you call recently? Thanks.

[Electricdaveyboy]

I have a spool from Electrisola and it is the stuff I saw on some Duncan singlecoils.
MWS sells REA Plain Enamel wich is also not the same as American Wire Co from
Mojo.
Had a spool from Wirenetics and it looked different than all others .........
If there is only one making PE he is making it verry inconsistent.

[voodoochild]

Did you get all of this information from Mojotone or did you call Elektrisola and AWC also? Just want to make sure who to call. Did you call recently? Thanks.

Yes I spoke to David at Mojo about 2 weeks ago about this because I can't track down the old Elekrisola stuff. I don't like the AWC but apparently there isn't any choice. I will use something else because I just don't see the cost/benifit using that stuff anymore. It's reinforcing this information is true when I see Ebay listings from BAE with "Hard to find" and pictures of AWC spools of PE.

[chevalij]

I asked Mojo where they got their wire and they told me Elektrisola. Elektrisola doesn't make PE anymore. AWC makes it for Elektrisola now. Call and ask. I am only quoting from the horses mouth and I trust they know considering they deal with these companies on a regular basis.

AWC made the nice dark stuff, then stopped making it for a while (about 6 months I think) when they had equipment problems. They do make it again, and ONLY sell to Elektrisola. This is from a really nice girl I used to deal with at AWC. Also, I think the new legislations about chemicals has changed AWC's color to the same reddish stuff as everybody else.