Interesting pickup information link

[pickupjunkie]

I stumbled across this link and find it very informative. Ya might check it out.

http://www.tymguitars.com.au/pickups.html

[cbarrow7625]

The link doesn't appear to work.

[David Schwab]

I'm confused that he shows humbuckers and talks about single coil Mosrite pickups.

I had two mid 60's Mosrite Venture's basses. I still have one of them. The pickups are very simple, made a lot like a P-90. Instead of a keeper bar, he has nuts glued between the two magnets with some black epoxy. I haven't looked at the pickup in a while, but I seem to remember it using two ceramic magnets, while these copies use Alnico... but then he said it wasn't an exact copy.

I've always liked Mosrites. The Ventures actually didn't like the pickups because they were too hot!

When I get a chance I'll take some photos of the pickup. The bass pickups were made in the same manner as the guitar pickups.

I thought this was an odd statement:

Copper wire today has less resistance than in the past and in fact Australia makes "the best" copper wire in the world. Today's manufacturing techniques allow for allot less oxygen content (hence high quality speaker cables with LOC or OFC written on them. Oxygen free copper) Nearly every country in the world has oxygen content in their wire except Australia. The original 43 gauge wire from the 60's has enough difference in resistance to show the difference in resistance in these pick ups. A piece 2 feet long would show 0.000 now or in the 60's, but with the sort of lengths we're using, it definitely makes a difference.

[Joe Gwinn]

As you suspect, the bit about Australian copper being oxygen free by original nature is nonsense.

[pickupjunkie]

As you suspect, the bit about Australian copper being oxygen free by original nature is nonsense.

Joe I kinda thought it might be a bit hypey too. lol but none the less interesting.

[David Schwab]

As you suspect, the bit about Australian copper being oxygen free by original nature is nonsense.

I'd say there's a lack of oxygen in general in Australia, except I like Australia and have a number of friends there!

I also find it hard to believe that a foot of 44 AWG back then has a different resistance than a foot of 44 AWG now.

[Diablo]

I read somewhere(?) that the old style PE wire was NOT made from OFHC copper, but ETP copper. Maybe I dreamt it. There is only a small difference in conductivity (1%). I think that Australian drank the bong water.

[Possum]

.........

Actually there is some truth to what he's saying. I have some PE I saved from a PAF, I rolled it onto a spool til I got tired of doing that. I rolled out 20 feet of it on the floor and then rolled out the same amount of modern PE next to it, both are identical O.D. The PAF wire was noticeably higher resistance.

Someone told me he read an interview with Jimmy Page who thought that PAFs sounded different because of the magnet wire and that magnet wire of the period came from South Africa back then, never seen this interview myself or have any idea if its true; I do know that magnet wire isn't that important in PAF tone.....

[Joe Gwinn]

Actually there is some truth to what he's saying. I have some PE I saved from a PAF, I rolled it onto a spool til I got tired of doing that. I rolled out 20 feet of it on the floor and then rolled out the same amount of modern PE next to it, both are identical O.D. The PAF wire was noticeably higher resistance.

You will get the same effect on different spools of the same wire, due to manufacturing variations.

[belwar]

You will get the same effect on different spools of the same wire, due to manufacturing variations.

Also, if it came off a PAF, then the wire had been tensioned as opposed to the new wire off a new spool. PAF's were wound quite tight which means that there is a good chance the wire is slightly stretched.. This would make the wire smaller and increase the resistance.

Also, I wonder how accurate magnet wire was in the 50's? I dont think they could make the accuracy anywhere near what they can today

[Possum]

....

The variation I found in ohms between those two pieces of wire was way out of whack to anything I'd find from two different spools modern wire. If I was getting that much variation I'd be pissed....it would make a huge difference in 10,000 winds, night and day....

[Joe Gwinn]

The variation I found in ohms between those two pieces of wire was way out of whack to anything I'd find from two different spools modern wire. If I was getting that much variation I'd be pissed....it would make a huge difference in 10,000 winds, night and day....

The allowed diameter range of #42 bare wire is 0.0024" to 0.0026", or 26/24= 1.0833:1. As DC resistance varies with the cross sectional area, the corresponding resistance variation is (1.0833)^2= 1.1736:1.

In other words, there is a 17% range in allowed resistance values for a given length of wire as found on the spool.

Winding fine wire often stretches it, causing added variation in diameter and thus resistance per length. Thinner wire will stretch more than thicker wire for a given winding tension, so the 17% range will increase.

[Possum]

....

I said they were identical diameters .00265" on the button....they shouldn't be so different. Its very understandable that magnet wire made in 1959 vs. 2008 would not be identical ohms per foot, metallurgical technologies were different then...

[Diablo]

I said they were identical diameters .00265" on the button....they shouldn't be so different. Its very understandable that magnet wire made in 1959 vs. 2008 would not be identical ohms per foot, metallurgical technologies were different then...

Copper technology is very very old....think about the bronze age.
My bet is that the copper in the copper wire has been made the same way and has the same electrical conductivity for the last 75 years. ETP copper is the standard grade for electrical wires. 101% IACS is typical.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxygen-free_copper


If you measured different resistivity for two samples of wire of the same nominal diameter, there could be a few other reasons for differences in conductivity. If the old wire was necked down in one region, it will have higher resistivity. The cold work of bending and unbending wire adds dislocations to the metal and increases the resistivity.

[Possum]

.....

Well there is no definitive answer is there? In working on PAFs I did a heck of alot of research on steel, the steel you buy today isn't made the same way, and I know from lab analysis that the alloys of 1960 aren't chemically identical to what you can buy now, does it make a difference, probably. I find it hard to believe that magnet wire is made identically today as it was then, I know the insulations aren't the same though the names are. Does aging have an effect? Who really knows, all you need is time and money, a good lab, and you could probably figure it out. I do think there is definitely a difference between that old wire and the stuff we get now, its an audible thing.....